Aṅguttara Nikāya · Discourse 9.38

Brahmin Cosmologists

Lokāyatikasutta — Mahāvagga — the fourth chapter of the Nines

Setting
None stated in the source
Speakers
Two brahmin cosmologists and the Buddha
Form
A reported doctrinal dispute, a declined arbitration, a simile of four impossibly fast runners, and the nine attainments reframed as stages of crossing the world
Length
~4 minutes to read
Redefining the question rather than answering it
The brahmins ask whether the cosmos is finite or infinite; the Buddha declines to adjudicate and redefines ‘the world’ entirely
Difficulty
★★★☆☆ — a philosophically sharp redirection, worth reading for its own logic

Why this discourse

Two brahmin cosmologists ask the Buddha to arbitrate between Pūraṇa Kassapa's claim that the cosmos is infinite and the Jain ascetic's claim that it is finite; rather than taking a side, the Buddha tells of four impossibly fast runners who could never reach the world's end by traveling, then redefines ‘the world’ as the five kinds of sensual stimulation, mapping each of the nine progressive attainments as a stage of meditating at, though not yet beyond, that world's end.

Reading guide

The teaching in one sentence

The five kinds of sensual stimulation are called ‘the world’ in the training of the Noble One; a mendicant meditating in any of the first eight progressive attainments has gone to the end of that world but hasn't yet left it, and only the ninth, the cessation of perception and feeling, actually crosses over clinging to it.

A dispute declined, not settled

Two brahmins report a genuine contradiction: one teacher claims infinite knowledge that the cosmos is infinite, another claims infinite knowledge that it is finite. The Buddha's response is not to pick a side or split the difference, but to set the entire question aside as the wrong question to be asking.

Four runners who could never arrive

The simile is deliberately extravagant: four men, each as fast as a well-shot arrow, with strides spanning ocean to ocean, running for a full hundred-year lifespan, would still die along the way without reaching the end of the physical world. The point isn't that the cosmos is literally that vast, but that ‘the end of the world’ was never a place reachable by traveling in the first place.

A different world, reachable by a different method

The Buddha's redefinition is the discourse's real move: ‘the world’ that actually matters for ending suffering is the five kinds of sensual stimulation, not physical cosmology. Each of the first eight progressive attainments is a way of meditating at this world's edge, though a mendicant there is still, by the Buddha's own admission, ‘included in the world, and hasn't yet left it’ — only the ninth attainment actually crosses over.

Key terms

lokāyatikā brāhmaṇā — “brahmin cosmologists” — this discourse's own title, naming the two questioners' area of doctrinal specialization.
anantavā loko... antavā loko — “the cosmos is infinite... the cosmos is finite” — the two contradictory claims the brahmins ask the Buddha to arbitrate.
na ca kho ahaṁ, brāhmaṇā, appatvā lokassa antaṁ dukkhassa antakiriyaṁ vadāmi — “there's no making an end of suffering without reaching the end of the world” — the Buddha's own pivot, before redefining what ‘the world’ means.
pañca kāmaguṇā ariyassa vinaye loko vuccati — “these five kinds of sensual stimulation are called the world in the training of the Noble One” — the discourse's own redefinition, replacing physical cosmology.
lokantagato lokante jhāyati... lokasmiṁ loke aniyyāto — “having gone to the end of the world, meditates at the end of the world... included in the world, and hasn't yet left the world” — the discourse's own formula applied to each of the first eight attainments.

The text

The discourse in full: a declined dispute, four impossibly fast runners, and the nine attainments reframed as stages of crossing the world. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

A dispute, declined

§1Then two brahmin cosmologists went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, they sat down to one side and said to the Buddha: “Worthy Gotama, Pūraṇa Kassapa claims to be all-knowing and all-seeing, to know and see everything without exception, thus: ‘Knowledge and vision are constantly and continually present to me, while walking, standing, sleeping, and waking.’ He says: ‘With infinite knowledge I know and see that the cosmos is infinite.’ And the Jain ascetic of the Ñātika clan also claims to be all-knowing and all-seeing, to know and see everything without exception, thus: ‘Knowledge and vision are constantly and continually present to me, while walking, standing, sleeping, and waking.’ He says: ‘With infinite knowledge I know and see that the cosmos is finite.’ These two claim to speak from knowledge, but they directly contradict each other. Which one of them speaks the truth, and which falsehood?” “Enough, brahmins, let that be. I will teach you the Dhamma. Listen and apply your mind well, I will speak.” “Yes, worthy sir,” those brahmins replied. The Buddha said this:

Four runners who could never arrive

§2“Suppose there were four men standing in the four quarters. Each of them was extremely fast, with an extremely mighty stride. They’re as fast as a light arrow easily shot across the shadow of a palm tree by a well-trained expert archer with a strong bow. Their stride was such that it spanned from the eastern ocean to the western ocean. Then the man standing in the east would say: ‘I will reach the end of the world by traveling.’ Though he’d travel for his whole lifespan of a hundred years—pausing only to eat and drink, go to the toilet, and sleep to dispel weariness—he’d die along the way, never reaching the end of the world. Then the man standing in the west … Then the man standing in the north … Then the man standing in the south would say: ‘I will reach the end of the world by traveling.’ Though he’d travel for his whole lifespan of a hundred years—pausing only to eat and drink, go to the toilet, and sleep to dispel weariness—he’d die along the way, never reaching the end of the world. Why is that? I say it’s not possible to know or see or reach the end of the world by running like this. But I also say there’s no making an end of suffering without reaching the end of the world.

A different world, crossed by a different method

§3These five kinds of sensual stimulation are called the world in the training of the Noble One. What five? Sights known by the eye, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. Sounds known by the ear … Smells known by the nose … Tastes known by the tongue … Touches known by the body, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. These five kinds of sensual stimulation are called the world in the training of the Noble One. Take a mendicant who, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. This is called a mendicant who, having gone to the end of the world, meditates at the end of the world. Others say of them: ‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’ And I also say this: ‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’

§4Furthermore, take a mendicant who, as the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, enters and remains in the second absorption … third absorption … fourth absorption. This is called a mendicant who, having gone to the end of the world, meditates at the end of the world. Others say of them: ‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’ And I also say this: ‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’ Furthermore, take a mendicant who, going totally beyond perceptions of form, with the disappearance of perceptions of impingement, not focusing on perceptions of diversity, aware that ‘space is infinite’, enters and remains in the dimension of infinite space. This is called a mendicant who, having gone to the end of the world, meditates at the end of the world. Others say of them: ‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’ And I also say this: ‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’ Furthermore, take a mendicant who enters and remains in the dimension of infinite consciousness. … the dimension of nothingness … the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception. This is called a mendicant who, having gone to the end of the world, meditates at the end of the world. Others say of them: ‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’ And I also say this: ‘They’re included in the world, and haven’t yet left the world.’ Furthermore, take a mendicant who, going totally beyond the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, enters and remains in the cessation of perception and feeling. And, having seen with wisdom, their defilements come to an end. This is called a mendicant who, having gone to the end of the world, meditates at the end of the world. And they’ve crossed over clinging to the world.”

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Self-check quiz

6 questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 6
What contradictory claims do the two brahmins ask the Buddha to arbitrate?
Correct: B. Two teachers, both claiming infinite knowledge, directly contradicting each other.
Question 2 of 6
How does the Buddha respond to the brahmins' request for arbitration?
Correct: C. Neither taking a side nor splitting the difference — setting the question aside.
Question 3 of 6
What does the simile of the four fast runners illustrate?
Correct: B. A deliberately extravagant image making a point about method, not literal distance.
Question 4 of 6
What does the Buddha redefine ‘the world’ as, in the training of the Noble One?
Correct: B. A redefinition that shifts the whole inquiry away from cosmology.
Question 5 of 6
According to this discourse, what is true of a mendicant meditating in any of the first eight progressive attainments?
Correct: B. Only the ninth attainment, per this discourse, actually crosses over.
Question 6 of 6
What finally crosses over clinging to the world, according to this discourse?
Correct: C. The same ninth attainment singled out across several discourses in this chapter.
Answered 0 of 6 · Correct 0