Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 1.25

A Perfected One

Arahantasutta

Setting
Not narrated in this discourse's source text; presumably the same recurring frame as the rest of this vagga
Speakers
An unnamed deity and the Buddha, across two rounds of question and answer
Form
Two paired questions, each answered by a verse of matching or greater length
Length
~1.5 minutes to read
Difficulty
★★★★☆ — one of this collection's more philosophically demanding discourses, on language, self-reference, and conceit
A recurring philosophical question
This discourse addresses directly a question relevant well beyond this single exchange: how someone free of self-view can still say ‘I’

Why this discourse

The deity's first question asks something genuinely puzzling: would a mendicant who is perfected, with defilements ended, ever say ‘I speak’ or ‘they speak to me’? The Buddha answers that yes, they would — skillful, understanding the world's own labels, they use such terms merely as expressions. The deity presses further: doesn't saying ‘I’ draw such a person close to conceit? The Buddha's second answer distinguishes precisely between the ties of conceit, which such a person has entirely dissolved, and the ordinary use of conventional language, which continues regardless.

Reading guide

A puzzle about self-reference

If an arahant has fully seen through the notion of a substantial self, the deity's question implicitly asks, how could they still use ordinary first-person language at all — 'I speak,' 'they speak to me' — without contradicting what they have realized? This is not a rhetorical question the Buddha simply dismisses; it receives a direct, considered answer.

Loka-samaññā, the world's own labels

The Buddha's first answer turns on a specific phrase: such a person, being skillful, understands lokasamaññaṁ, the world's own conventional labels, and uses terms like 'I' as mere expressions (voharamattena) rather than as claims about an underlying substantial self. The words are used, but not believed in the way ordinary usage might imply.

Conceit as ties, not as vocabulary

The deity's second question sharpens the puzzle: doesn't using 'I' bring such a person close to conceit (māna) after all? The Buddha's second answer relocates the issue entirely: conceit is a matter of ties (gantha), all of which such a person has dissolved, not a matter of which words are spoken. Someone can be completely free of conceit's ties while still using the vocabulary conceit also happens to use.

A distinction with wide implications

This discourse's distinction between conventional language and the psychological ties it might, in an unliberated speaker, accompany has relevance well past this single exchange: it addresses directly how teaching, conversation, and ordinary reference remain possible for someone who has, by the collection's own account, seen through the assumption of a substantial self underlying such reference.

Key terms

khīṇāsavo — “one whose defilements are ended” — the description of the arahant both of the deity's questions concern.
lokasamaññaṁ — “the world's own labels, conventional usage” — what the arahant is said to understand, allowing ordinary language to be used skillfully rather than naively.
voharamattena — “as mere expression, as a manner of speaking” — how the arahant is said to use terms like 'I,' without the underlying belief in a substantial self such usage might otherwise imply.
māna — “conceit” — the specific concern raised by the deity's second question, distinguished in the reply from ordinary linguistic convention.
chinnagantho — “one whose ties are cut” — the reply's description of someone free of conceit's ties, regardless of what conventional words they continue to use.

The text

The discourse in full: two questions on whether an arahant's ordinary speech implies conceit, and two careful answers. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

A question about self-reference

§1“When a mendicant is perfected, proficient, with defilements ended, bearing the final body: would they say, ‘I speak’, or even ‘they speak to me’?”

§2“When a mendicant is perfected, proficient, with defilements ended, bearing the final body: they would say, ‘I speak’, and also ‘they speak to me’. Skillful, understanding the world’s labels, they’d use these terms as mere expressions.”

A sharper question about conceit

§3“When a mendicant is perfected, proficient, with defilements ended, bearing the final body: is such a mendicant drawing close to conceit if they’d say, ‘I speak’, or even ‘they speak to me’?”

§4“Someone who has given up conceit has no ties, the ties of conceit are all dissipated. Though that intelligent person has passed beyond conceiving, they’d still say, ‘I speak’, and also ‘they speak to me’. Skillful, understanding the world’s labels, they’d use these terms as mere expressions.”

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Self-check quiz

Ten questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 10
What does the deity's first question ask?
Correct: A. A puzzle about self-reference for someone who has seen through self-view.
Question 2 of 10
How does the Buddha answer this first question?
Correct: A. Voharamattena — used as expression, not as a claim about a substantial self.
Question 3 of 10
What does the deity's second question press further?
Correct: A. Sharpening the puzzle raised by the first question and answer.
Question 4 of 10
How does the Buddha's second answer relocate the issue?
Correct: A. Language and psychological clinging are treated as separate matters.
Question 5 of 10
What does 'lokasamaññaṁ' mean?
Correct: A. What the arahant is said to understand and use skillfully.
Question 6 of 10
What does 'voharamattena' mean?
Correct: A. How ordinary words like 'I' are used without an underlying belief in a substantial self.
Question 7 of 10
What does 'chinnagantho' describe?
Correct: A. The reply's precise description of freedom from conceit's ties.
Question 8 of 10
Does this discourse claim that arahants cannot use ordinary language?
Correct: A. The whole discourse turns on affirming, then explaining, this continued use.
Question 9 of 10
What description is given to the arahant discussed in both questions?
Correct: A. Khīṇāsavo antimadehadharo — the recurring description across all four verses.
Question 10 of 10
How many rounds of question and answer does this discourse contain?
Correct: A. A first question and answer on self-reference, then a sharper second round on conceit.
Answered 0 of 10 · Correct 0