Reading guide
The same formula, tested on two different people
Saviṭṭha's question and its precise wording — apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned argument, or accepted view, do you personally know — is repeated identically for Musīla and then for Nārada, making the two responses directly comparable rather than two separate teachings.
A formula that measures knowledge, not necessarily attainment
Both Musīla and Nārada give exactly the same affirmative answers to exactly the same questions, right up to and including the cessation of existence being extinguishment — yet this identical knowledge doesn't settle whether either of them has fully attained what they know.
Silence as its own kind of answer
When Saviṭṭha calls Musīla an arahant, Musīla doesn't correct him or explain; he simply falls silent, leaving the reader to draw their own conclusion about what that silence means, since the text itself doesn't say.
A direct refusal, backed by a precise image
Where Musīla stays quiet, Nārada speaks up clearly: he has truly seen with right wisdom that the cessation of existence is extinguishment, and states plainly that he is not an arahant, refusing to let the formula's affirmative answers stand in for a claim he won't make.
Water seen, but not yet touched
The waterless well doesn't describe someone deceived or mistaken about where the water is; the traveler's knowledge is completely accurate — the gap is purely between knowing something is real and being able to physically reach it, a precise distinction between clear seeing and complete attainment.
Key terms
The text
§1At one time the venerables Musīla, Saviṭṭha, Nārada, and Ānanda were staying near Kosambī in Ghosita’s monastery. Then Venerable Saviṭṭha said to Venerable Musīla: “Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that rebirth is a requirement for old age and death?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that rebirth is a requirement for old age and death.”
§2“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberateation, do you personally know that continued existence is a requirement for rebirth … grasping is a requirement for continued existence … craving is a requirement for grasping … feeling is a requirement for craving … contact is a requirement for feeling … the six sense fields are requirements for contact … name and form are requirements for the six sense fields … consciousness is a requirement for name and form … choices are a requirement for consciousness … ignorance is a requirement for choices?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that ignorance is a requirement for choices.”
§3“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that when rebirth ceases, old age and death cease?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that when rebirth ceases, old age and death cease.”
§4“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that when continued existence ceases, rebirth ceases … when grasping ceases, continued existence ceases … when craving ceases, grasping ceases … when feeling ceases, craving ceases … when contact ceases, feeling ceases … when the six sense fields cease, contact ceases … when name and form cease, the six sense fields cease … when consciousness ceases name and form cease … when choices cease consciousness ceases … when ignorance ceases, choices cease?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that when ignorance ceases, choices cease.”
§5“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment.”
§6“Then Venerable Musīla is a perfected one, with defilements ended.” When he said this, Musīla kept silent.
§7Then Venerable Nārada said to Venerable Saviṭṭha, “Reverend Saviṭṭha, please let me answer these questions. Ask me and I will answer them for you.” “By all means, Venerable Nārada, try these questions. I’ll ask you and you can answer them for me.” (Saviṭṭha repeats exactly the same series of questions, and Nārada answers just as Musīla did.)
§8“Reverend Nārada, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you personally know that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment?” “Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment.”
§9“Then Venerable Nārada is a perfected one, with defilements ended.” “I have truly seen clearly with right wisdom that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment. Yet I am not a perfected one. Suppose there was a well on a desert road that had neither rope nor bucket. Then along comes a person struggling in the oppressive heat, weary, thirsty, and parched. They’d know that there was water, but they couldn’t physically touch it. In the same way, I have truly seen clearly with right wisdom that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment. Yet I am not a perfected one.”
§10When he said this, Venerable Ānanda said to Venerable Saviṭṭha, “Reverend Saviṭṭha, what do you have to say to Venerable Nārada when he speaks like this?” “Reverend Ānanda, I have nothing to say to Venerable Nārada when he speaks like this, except what is good and wholesome.”
Self-check quiz
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