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Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 2.18

With Kakudha

Kakudhasutta

Setting
Near Sāketa, in the deer park at the Añjana Wood, late at night — this book's second departure from Sāvatthī
Speakers
The Buddha and the godling Kakudha
Form
A prose exchange of short questions and paradoxical answers, closed by two matching verses
Length
~2 minutes to read
Northern parallel
A rough counterpart may exist in the Chinese Saṃyukta-āgama (T99), though this reading guide does not assert a specific matching sutra number
Difficulty
★★★★☆ — the prose exchange's rapid paradoxical replies reward slow, careful reading

Why this discourse

Kakudha asks the Buddha bluntly whether he delights, and the Buddha answers with a question of his own — ‘what have I gained?’ — before the exchange runs through sorrow the same way and arrives at neither delight nor sorrow. The verses that follow explain why: delight is born from gloom and gloom is born from delight, so a mendicant free of both has stepped outside the pair entirely rather than balancing between them.

Reading guide

A second departure from Sāvatthī

This discourse moves the setting to Sāketa's deer park at the Añjana Wood, this book's second location change after SN 2.13's move to Rājagaha, again marked by the full narrative opening formula rather than the usual abbreviated one.

A question answered with a question

Kakudha's ‘Do you delight, ascetic?’ is met not with yes or no but with ‘What have I gained, sir?’ — refusing the terms of the question rather than answering within them, and the same pattern repeats for sorrow: ‘What have I lost, sir?’

Neither delight nor sorrow, confirmed directly

Only after two paradoxical non-answers does the Buddha confirm plainly, ‘Yes, sir’, that he neither delights nor sorrows — the confirmation withheld until Kakudha's persistent questioning earns it.

Delight and gloom, each born from the other

The closing verses explain the paradox: ‘delight is born from gloom, gloom is born from delight’ — the two are not opposites to be balanced but a single cycle, each generating the other, from which freedom means exiting the cycle rather than choosing a side.

A brahmin fully quenched: Kakudha's closing verdict

Kakudha's final verse does not merely accept the Buddha's answer but pronounces a verdict on it — ‘after a long time I see a brahmin fully quenched’ — framing the encounter itself as rare and significant from the godling's own point of view.

Key terms

Sāketa — “Sāketa” — the city near which this discourse is set, this book's second departure from Sāvatthī.
Añjanavana — “Añjana Wood” — the deer park named as this discourse's specific setting.
nandi — “delight” — one half of the pair the closing verses say is born from, and gives birth to, its opposite.
soka — “gloom, sorrow” — the other half of the same generative pair.
nibbuta brāhmaṇa — “a brahmin fully quenched” — Kakudha's closing description of the Buddha, framing the encounter as rare.

The text

The discourse in full: the prose exchange of paradoxical questions and answers, followed by both figures' closing verses. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

§1So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāketa in the deer park at the Añjana Wood. Then, late at night, the glorious godling Kakudha, lighting up the entire Añjana Wood, went up to the Buddha, bowed, stood to one side, and said to him, “Do you delight, ascetic?” “What have I gained, sir?” “Well then, ascetic, do you sorrow?” “What have I lost, sir?” “Well then, ascetic, do you neither delight nor sorrow?” “Yes, sir.”

§2“I hope you’re not gloomy, mendicant, I hope that delight isn’t found in you. I hope that discontent doesn’t overwhelm you as you sit alone.”

§3“I’m genuinely not gloomy, spirit, and no delight is found in me. And also discontent doesn’t overwhelm me as I sit alone.”

§4“How are you not gloomy, mendicant? How is delight not found in you? How does discontent not overwhelm you as you sit alone?”

§5“Delight is born from gloom, gloom is born from delight; sir, you should know me as a mendicant free of delight and gloom.”

§6“After a long time I see a brahmin fully quenched. A mendicant free of delight and gloom, he has crossed over clinging to the world.”

· · ·

Self-check quiz

Ten questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 10
Where is this discourse set?
Correct: A. This book's second departure from Sāvatthī, after SN 2.13's move to Rājagaha.
Question 2 of 10
How does the Buddha answer Kakudha's question, “Do you delight, ascetic?”
Correct: A. Refusing the terms of the question rather than answering within them.
Question 3 of 10
How does the same pattern play out for sorrow?
Correct: A. The same paradoxical non-answer pattern repeated for sorrow.
Question 4 of 10
Does the Buddha eventually confirm neither delight nor sorrow directly?
Correct: A. Confirmation withheld until Kakudha's persistent questioning earns it.
Question 5 of 10
What do the closing verses say about delight and gloom?
Correct: A. “Delight is born from gloom, gloom is born from delight.”
Question 6 of 10
What does freedom from this cycle require, according to the verses?
Correct: A. A mendicant free of delight and gloom has stepped outside the pair, not balanced within it.
Question 7 of 10
What is Kakudha's closing verdict on the Buddha?
Correct: A. Framing the encounter itself as rare and significant from Kakudha's own point of view.
Question 8 of 10
What form does most of this discourse take?
Correct: A. Distinct in form from the verse-only discourses common elsewhere in this vagga.
Question 9 of 10
What is this discourse's difficulty rated, and why?
Correct: A. The rapid question-and-non-answer exchange rewards slow, careful reading.
Question 10 of 10
How does the narrative frame of this discourse compare to most others at Sāvatthī?
Correct: A. Like SN 2.13's move to Rājagaha, a new location prompts the fuller opening formula.
Answered 0 of 10 · Correct 0

Further reading

← PreviousSN 2.17 · With Subrahmā