Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 24.45

Winds

Tatiyavātasutta — Tatiyagamanavagga

Setting
Sāvatthī
Speakers
The Buddha addressing the mendicants
Form
SN 24.19's own view, re-examined a third time, with the suffering-ground addition now worded slightly differently
Length
~2 minutes to read
Northern parallel
A rough counterpart may exist in the Chinese Saṃyukta-āgama (T99), though this reading guide does not assert a specific matching sutra number
Difficulty
★★☆☆☆ — straightforward content, though the wording variation from SN 24.19 rewards close attention

Why this discourse

Opens Tatiyagamanavagga ("the Chapter on the Third Round"), which this vagga's own merged central block later confirms runs through "discourses 20 through 43 of the second chapter" — meaning this third round covers the full twenty-six-topic catalog Dutiyagamanavagga already established (its original eighteen plus its own eight new additions), not a further expansion. Structurally this vagga is the simplest in the entire saṃyutta: only its first and last topics receive individual treatment, the remaining twenty-four collapsed into a single cross-reference.

Reading guide

The same view, a third time

"Winds don't blow; rivers don't flow; pregnant women don't give birth; the moon and stars neither rise nor set, but stand firm like a pillar" — identical to SN 24.1 and SN 24.19's own opening claims, now examined for a third pass through this saṃyutta's core catalog.

The suffering-ground addition, reworded

SN 24.19 added suffering as a seventh graspable ground with the phrase "and so, when suffering exists, because of grasping suffering and insisting on suffering, the view arises..." This discourse states the identical point more economically: "and so, what's impermanent is suffering. When this exists, grasping at this, the view arises..." — the same logical move, condensed into a shorter formula.

This is this vagga's own small but genuine contribution: not new content, but a more compact restatement of the second round's own addition.

This vagga's own minimal shape

Where Dutiyagamanavagga needed eleven separate pages to cover its twenty-six topics (bracketing a sixteen-topic merged block with two full discourses, then adding eight further individually treated new topics), Tatiyagamanavagga needs only three: this discourse, a single merged block covering positions 2 through 25 of the same twenty-six-topic catalog, and one closing discourse.

No new topics this round

Confirmed by dump of every relevant bilara-data file before writing: this vagga introduces nothing Dutiyagamanavagga did not already establish. The question of whether a saṃyutta this systematic would keep expanding its catalog indefinitely is answered here — round three is pure repetition, not expansion.

Key terms

tatiyagamana — the third round — this vagga's own name, marking its status as a third pass through the same twenty-six-topic catalog
aniccaṁ kho pana dukkhaṁ — "what's impermanent is suffering" — this round's own condensed restatement of the seventh-ground addition first shown at SN 24.19
upādāya... abhinivissa — grasping... and insisting on — this book's standing two-condition formula
peyyāla — an elision mark — used throughout this vagga to compress its middle twenty-four topics to a single cross-reference
Paṭhamaṁ — "the first" — this discourse's own untranslated position-marker, opening this vagga's local sequence

The text

The complete discourse as bilara-data preserves it: the view re-examined with the reworded seventh ground. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

§1At Sāvatthī. “Mendicants, when what exists, because of grasping what and insisting on what, does the view arise: ‘Winds don’t blow; rivers don’t flow; pregnant women don’t give birth; the moon and stars neither rise nor set, but stand firm like a pillar’?” “Our teachings are rooted in the Buddha. …”

§2“When form exists, because of grasping form and insisting on form, the view arises: ‘Winds don’t blow; rivers don’t flow; pregnant women don’t give birth; the moon and stars neither rise nor set, but stand firm like a pillar.’ When feeling … perception … choices … consciousness exists, because of grasping consciousness and insisting on consciousness, the view arises: ‘Winds don’t blow; rivers don’t flow; pregnant women don’t give birth; the moon and stars neither rise nor set, but stand firm like a pillar.’

§3What do you think, mendicants? Is form permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent, sir.” … “But by not grasping what’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, would the view arise: ‘Winds don’t blow; rivers don’t flow; pregnant women don’t give birth; the moon and stars neither rise nor set, but stand firm like a pillar’?” “No, sir.” “And so, what’s impermanent is suffering. When this exists, grasping at this, the view arises: ‘Winds don’t blow; rivers don’t flow; pregnant women don’t give birth; the moon and stars neither rise nor set, but stand firm like a pillar.’ Is feeling … perception … choices … consciousness permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent, sir.” … “And so, what’s impermanent is suffering. When this exists, grasping at this, the view arises: ‘Winds don’t blow; rivers don’t flow; pregnant women don’t give birth; the moon and stars neither rise nor set, but stand firm like a pillar.’”

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Self-check quiz

Ten questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 10
What view does this discourse re-examine?
Correct: A. A third pass through this saṃyutta's opening view.
Question 2 of 10
How does this discourse's suffering-ground addition differ in wording from SN 24.19's?
Correct: A. The same logical move, condensed into a shorter formula.
Question 3 of 10
What does this vagga's merged central block later confirm about its own coverage?
Correct: A. Confirming this round covers Dutiyagamanavagga's full twenty-six-topic catalog, not an expansion.
Question 4 of 10
How many pages does this vagga need to cover its own twenty-six topics, compared to Dutiyagamanavagga's eleven?
Correct: A. This vagga's own minimal, purely repetitive shape.
Question 5 of 10
Does this vagga introduce any new topics beyond Dutiyagamanavagga's own catalog?
Correct: A. Answering directly whether this saṃyutta keeps expanding indefinitely: it does not.
Question 6 of 10
Where is this discourse set?
Correct: A. Matching the setting of most of this book's discourses.
Question 7 of 10
What vagga does this discourse open?
Correct: A. This saṃyutta's third vagga, running the full catalog through a third time.
Question 8 of 10
How many aggregates does this discourse's catechism examine, plus the reworded seventh ground?
Correct: A. Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness, plus the condensed suffering-ground addition.
Question 9 of 10
What does bilara-data's own untranslated position-marker confirm about this discourse?
Correct: A. A local numbering marker within Tatiyagamanavagga's own twenty-six sutta-numbers.
Question 10 of 10
What discourse closes this vagga, given individual treatment like this one?
Correct: A. Bracketing the merged twenty-four-topic block, exactly as SN 24.19 and 24.36 bracketed Dutiyagamanavagga's own merged block.
Answered 0 of 10 · Correct 0