The Buddha alone, addressing the assembled mendicants
Form
The same either/or test, built from a different four-item slice, this vagga's own most compressed discourse of the series
Length
Under 1 minute to read
Northern parallel
A rough counterpart may exist in the Chinese Saṃyukta-āgama (T99), though this reading guide does not assert a specific matching sutra number
Difficulty
★☆☆☆☆ — brief, closing the series on a different combination
Why this discourse
This discourse closes the three-part ascetics-and-brahmins series with its most compressed member, testing the same underlying claim through yet another combination: feeling itself, its origin, its cessation, and the practice leading to cessation — four items drawn from a different part of the fuller catechism than either SN 36.27's own three (gratification, drawback, escape) or SN 36.28's own five (those three plus origin and disappearance).
Reading guide
A genuinely different four items, not a subset of the others
Feeling, origin, cessation, and the practice to cessation share only “origin” with SN 36.28's own five-item list and nothing at all with SN 36.27's own three — confirming the series tests the same underlying claim through varied combinations rather than simply expanding or shrinking one fixed list.
The most compressed discourse of the series
This discourse is stated even more briefly than SN 36.28's own already-compressed version, reducing the entire test to its shortest form yet while still preserving the identical all-or-nothing verdict structure.
A series that resists being read as one simple progression
Read together, SN 36.27's three, SN 36.28's five, and this discourse's own four don't form a tidy ascending or descending sequence; they form three genuinely distinct tests built from overlapping but non-identical parts of the same larger catechism, each independently sufficient to establish the same claim.
Closing on the practice, not on gratification
Where SN 36.27 and SN 36.28 both closed their own lists on escape (nissaraṇa), this discourse closes on the practice leading to cessation instead — a different emphasis, ending on the path to be followed rather than the felt sense of what is being escaped from.
Key terms
vedanaṁ na pajānanti — “don't understand feeling” — the first item in this discourse's own four-part test
vedanāsamudayaṁ — feeling's own origin — the one item this discourse's list shares with SN 36.28's own five-item version
vedanānirodhaṁ — feeling's own cessation — present in this discourse's list but absent from both SN 36.27's and SN 36.28's own lists
vedanānirodhagāminiṁ paṭipadaṁ — “the practice that leads to the cessation of feeling” — the closing item, ending on the path to be followed rather than on escape
tatiyaṁ — “third” — this discourse's own untranslated closing marker, its position within this three-part series
The text
The complete discourse: the four-item test and its either/or application. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).
§1“Mendicants, there are ascetics and brahmins who don’t understand feeling, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation. … There are ascetics and brahmins who do understand …”
· · ·
Self-check quiz
5 questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.
Question 1 of 5
What four items make up this discourse's own test?
Correct: A. A genuinely different combination sharing only "origin" with SN 36.28's own five-item list.
Question 2 of 5
Does this discourse's four-item list form a simple subset of SN 36.28's own five items?
Correct: A. Confirming the series tests the same claim through varied, non-identical combinations.
Question 3 of 5
Which discourse in this three-part series is the most compressed?
Correct: A. Reducing the entire test to its shortest form while preserving the identical verdict structure.
Question 4 of 5
What does this discourse close its own list on, unlike SN 36.27 and SN 36.28?
Correct: A. A different emphasis — ending on the path to be followed rather than the felt sense of what is escaped.
Question 5 of 5
What does reading all three discourses in this series together suggest?
Correct: A. Each independently sufficient to establish the same underlying claim about true ascetics and brahmins.
