Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 48.7

Ascetics and Brahmins (2nd)

Dutiyasamaṇabrāhmaṇasutta — Suddhikavagga

Setting
Not specified in the source
Speakers
The Buddha, addressing the mendicants directly
Form
Two contrasting cases, each applying a fourfold noble-truths-style framework separately to each of the five faculties
Length
1-2 minutes to read
Northern parallel
No individual parallel confirmed by this project's own check
Significance
★★★★☆ — confirms this project's own caution at SN 48.6 that the companion discourse's content should never be assumed

Why this discourse

This discourse confirms exactly why this project's own SN 48.6 refused to guess its companion's content: rather than the gratification/drawback/escape lens met throughout the earlier discourses, THIS discourse uses a genuinely DIFFERENT fourfold framework — echoing the four noble truths' own structure (the thing itself, its origin, its cessation, and the practice leading to that cessation) — applied SEPARATELY to each of the five faculties in turn, not once to all five together.

Reading guide

A genuinely different framework, exactly as this project's own caution anticipated

Confirmed by direct reading, this discourse does NOT repeat SN 48.6's own gratification/drawback/escape lens at all — it uses instead a fourfold pattern — the faculty itself, its origin (samudaya), its cessation (nirodha), and the practice leading to its cessation (nirodhagāminī paṭipadā) — a structure recognizably echoing the four noble truths' own shape, here applied to each faculty.

Applied to each faculty separately, not to all five together

Confirmed by direct reading, this fourfold framework is applied INDIVIDUALLY to faith, then energy, then mindfulness, then immersion, then wisdom, each getting its own separate application of the same four-part analysis — a structurally different move from every discourse in this vagga so far, which applied a single lens to all five faculties collectively.

The same denial of the title, a different route there

Confirmed by direct reading, this discourse's own closing verdict — denying or affirming the title “true ascetic or brahmin” — is WORD FOR WORD identical to SN 48.6's own closing verdict, confirming both discourses share the same conclusion even though they reach it by two structurally distinct analytical routes.

Key terms

saddhindriyaṁ... samudayaṁ... nirodhaṁ... nirodhagāminiṁ paṭipadaṁ — “the faculty of faith, its origin, its cessation, and the practice leading to its cessation” — the fourfold pattern applied to the first faculty, then repeated for each of the remaining four
nirodha — “cessation” — a term this discourse applies to each faculty individually, distinct from the “disappearance” (atthaṅgama) term met in the earlier fivefold-lens discourses
nirodhagāminī paṭipadā — “the practice leading to cessation” — the fourth element of this discourse's own framework, echoing the fourth noble truth's own structure
pajānanti / nappajānanti — “understand / don't understand” — the governing verb pair distinguishing this discourse's own two contrasting cases
na me te... samaṇasammatā... brāhmaṇasammatā — the identical denial-of-title formula already met at SN 48.6, confirming the same verdict reached by a different analytical route

The text

The complete discourse, in its own two contrasting cases. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

§1 — those who fail to understand“Mendicants, there are ascetics and brahmins who don’t understand the faculty of faith, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation. They don’t understand the faculty of energy … mindfulness … immersion … wisdom, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation. I don’t deem them as true ascetics and brahmins. Those venerables don’t realize the goal of life as an ascetic or brahmin, and don’t live having realized it with their own insight.

§2 — those who truly understandThere are ascetics and brahmins who do understand the faculty of faith, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation. They do understand the faculty of energy … mindfulness … immersion … wisdom, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation. I deem them as true ascetics and brahmins. Those venerables realize the goal of life as an ascetic or brahmin, and live having realized it with their own insight.”

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Self-check quiz

3 questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 3
How does this discourse's own framework compare to SN 48.6's own gratification/drawback/escape lens?
Correct: A. Confirming this project's own caution at SN 48.6 was correct — the companion's content was never safe to assume.
Question 2 of 3
How is this fourfold framework applied across the five faculties?
Correct: A. A structurally different move from every discourse in this vagga so far.
Question 3 of 3
How does this discourse's own closing verdict compare to SN 48.6's own?
Correct: A. The same conclusion, reached by two structurally distinct paths.
Answered 0 of 3 · Correct 0