Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 5.9

With Selā

Selāsutta

Setting
At Sāvatthī, at the root of a tree, for the day's meditation
Speakers
The nun Selā and Māra the Wicked
Form
A riddle about origin and maker, answered with causal reasoning and an agricultural simile
Length
~1.5 minutes to read
Northern parallel
A rough counterpart may exist in the Chinese Saṃyukta-āgama (T99), though this reading guide does not assert a specific matching sutra number
Difficulty
★★★★☆ — a doctrinally dense riddle, best read alongside its close companion at SN 5.10

Why this discourse

Māra's riddle here doesn't threaten, mock, or tempt; it asks a philosophical question outright: who made this puppet, where is its maker, where has it arisen, and where does it cease? — a challenge aimed at finding some creator or fixed origin behind conditioned existence. Selā's reply refuses both options the riddle assumes: the puppet is neither self-made nor made by another, but arises because of a cause and ceases when that cause breaks up, illustrated by a seed that grows only given the right soil and moisture.

Reading guide

A philosophical riddle, not a threat or temptation

Unlike most confrontations in this saṃyutta, Māra's opening move here carries no emotional charge at all — no fear, grief, or desire invoked, just a direct metaphysical question about origins, closer to a philosophical challenge than an attempt to disturb her meditation.

A riddle assuming a false choice

The question ‘who created this puppet, where is its maker’ assumes some external creator must exist for the puppet to have come about at all — the very premise Selā's reply refuses before offering any alternative explanation.

Neither self-made nor made by another

Selā's opening line rejects both horns of a common philosophical dilemma explicitly: not self-caused, not caused by an external agent, but ‘because of a cause’ in a more specific, conditional sense — existence dependent on conditions rather than traceable to any single maker.

A seed needing soil and moisture, not a maker

The verse's central simile replaces the search for a creator with an image of conditions: a seed sown in a field grows only given the soil's nutrients and moisture together, neither factor alone sufficient — a model of arising through combined conditions rather than single causation.

The same reasoning applied to the whole of experience

The verse's final stanza extends the seed simile beyond the puppet riddle's original scope to the aggregates, elements, and six sense fields together — the entirety of conditioned experience explained by the same principle of dependent arising and cessation, not merely the specific image Māra first proposed.

Key terms

bimba — “puppet, image” — Māra's own term for the riddle's subject, asking who made it and where it arose.
attakata parakata — “self-made…made by another” — the two options Selā's reply rejects before offering a third.
hetuṁ paṭicca sambhūtaṁ — “comes to be because of a cause” — Selā's actual explanation, replacing the search for a maker with conditional arising.
hetubhaṅgā nirujjhati — “ceases when the cause breaks up” — the corresponding account of cessation, matching the verse's account of arising.
khandhā dhātuyo āyatanā — “the aggregates and elements and these six sense fields” — the verse's closing extension of the seed simile's logic to the whole of conditioned experience.

The text

The discourse in full: Māra's riddle about the puppet's origin and Selā's answer through dependent arising and the seed simile. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

§1At Sāvatthī. Then the nun Selā robed up in the morning … and sat at the root of a tree for the day’s meditation. Then Māra the Wicked, wanting to make the nun Selā feel fear, terror, and goosebumps … addressed her in verse:

§2“Who created this puppet? Where is its maker? Where has the puppet arisen? And where does it cease?”

§3Then the nun Selā thought, “Who’s speaking this verse, a human or a non-human?” Then she thought, “This is Māra the Wicked, wanting to make me feel fear, terror, and goosebumps, wanting to make me fall away from immersion!” Then Selā, knowing that this was Māra the Wicked, replied to him in verse:

§4“This puppet isn’t self-made, nor is this gloom made by another. It comes to be because of a cause, and ceases when the cause breaks up. It’s like a seed that’s sown in a field; it grows relying on both the soil’s nutrients as well as moisture. In the same way the aggregates and elements and these six sense fields come to be because of a cause, and cease when the cause breaks up.”

§5Then Māra the Wicked, thinking, “The nun Selā knows me!” miserable and sad, vanished right there.

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Self-check quiz

Ten questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 10
What kind of challenge does Māra pose in this discourse, unlike most others in this saṃyutta?
Correct: A. Closer to a metaphysical challenge than an attempt to disturb her emotionally.
Question 2 of 10
What does Māra's riddle ask?
Correct: A. A question aimed at finding some creator or fixed origin behind conditioned existence.
Question 3 of 10
What false choice does the riddle assume, according to the reading guide?
Correct: A. The very premise Selā's reply refuses before offering an alternative.
Question 4 of 10
How does Selā's opening line respond to this assumption?
Correct: A. Rejecting both horns of the dilemma explicitly.
Question 5 of 10
What does Selā offer instead of a maker?
Correct: A. Conditional arising and cessation, replacing the search for a single maker.
Question 6 of 10
What simile does the verse use to illustrate this?
Correct: A. A model of arising through combined conditions, not single causation.
Question 7 of 10
What does the verse's final stanza extend this reasoning to?
Correct: A. The same principle of dependent arising and cessation applied beyond the original riddle.
Question 8 of 10
Where is this discourse set?
Correct: A. The same general setting shared with several other discourses in this saṃyutta.
Question 9 of 10
What two factors does the seed need to grow, according to the simile?
Correct: A. Neither factor alone sufficient, illustrating combined conditions.
Question 10 of 10
How does Māra's closing thought in this discourse read?
Correct: A. Following this saṃyutta's pattern of crediting the specific nun by name.
Answered 0 of 10 · Correct 0