The independent divinity Suddhāvāsa, addressing the Buddha
Form
A single four-line verse, almost identical to SN 6.7's, with its final descriptive word changed
Length
~1.5 minutes to read
Northern parallel
A rough counterpart may exist in the Chinese Saṃyukta-āgama (T99), though this reading guide does not assert a specific matching sutra number
Difficulty
★★☆☆☆ — brief, best read alongside SN 6.7 for the contrast
Why this discourse
This discourse is almost a twin of SN 6.7: the same opening, the same near-identical four-line verse warning against presuming to measure the immeasurable — but here it is Suddhāvāsa who speaks rather than Subrahmā, the mendicant named is Katamorakatissaka rather than Kokālika, and the verse's final word shifts from ‘ordinary person’ to ‘ignoramus’. Reading the two side by side shows the collection's method plainly: a single warning, reused nearly verbatim, applied to more than one figure who drew the same criticism.
Reading guide
A deliberate near-repeat, not a copying error
Every element of SN 6.7 recurs here almost exactly — the setting, the divinities' arrival, the verse's first three lines word for word — making the differences that do appear stand out precisely because the surrounding structure is unchanged.
Suddhāvāsa speaks this time, not Subrahmā
In SN 6.7 it was Subrahmā who spoke the verse; here it is his companion Suddhāvāsa, the two independent divinities apparently sharing this kind of pointed commentary between them rather than either one owning it alone.
A different mendicant, the same criticism
The verse now concerns Katamorakatissaka rather than Kokālika — a different named figure, otherwise unintroduced here, receiving the identical warning against presuming to measure the immeasurable.
One word changed: ignoramus instead of ordinary person
The verse's closing line swaps ‘puthujjana’ (ordinary person) for ‘akissava’ (ignoramus, one who has heard nothing) — a small shift in register, sharpening the earlier verse's classification into something closer to an insult.
Two verses that reward reading together
Neither SN 6.7 nor SN 6.8 narrates why its named mendicant drew this warning; read as a pair, they suggest a small cluster of monks who shared a tendency toward the same presumptuous kind of judgment, addressed here as a recurring theme rather than a single incident.
Key terms
appameyyaṁ paminanto — “measuring the immeasurable” — identical to SN 6.7's opening image.
vikappaye — “would judge” — unchanged from SN 6.7's verse.
nivutaṁ — “shrouded” — unchanged, describing the darkness covering such a person.
akissava — “ignoramus”, one who has heard nothing — the single word that differs from SN 6.7's ‘puthujjana’, sharpening the verse's tone.
katamodakatissakaṁ bhikkhuṁ ārabbha — “about the mendicant Katamorakatissaka” — the discourse's stated occasion, naming a different figure than SN 6.7's.
The text
The discourse in full — nearly identical to SN 6.7's, with the differences noted above. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).
§1At Sāvatthī. Now at that time the Buddha had gone into retreat for the day’s meditation. Then the independent divinities Subrahmā and Suddhāvāsa went to the Buddha and stationed themselves one by each door-post. Then Suddhāvāsa spoke this verse about the mendicant Katamorakatissaka in the Buddha’s presence:
§2“What wise person here would judge the immeasurable by measuring them? I think anyone who’d do such a thing is an ignoramus, shrouded in darkness.”
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Self-check quiz
Ten questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.
Question 1 of 10
How does this discourse's structure compare to SN 6.7's?
Correct: A. The same setting, arrival, and verse structure, applied with small variations.
Question 2 of 10
Who speaks the verse in this discourse?
Correct: A. Unlike SN 6.7, where Subrahmā spoke; here it is his companion Suddhāvāsa.
Question 3 of 10
Which mendicant does this discourse's verse concern?
Correct: A. A different named figure than SN 6.7's Kokālika.
Question 4 of 10
What single word changes in the verse's final line, compared to SN 6.7?
Correct: A. A small shift sharpening the verse's tone, from puthujjana to akissava.
Question 5 of 10
What is the verse's central warning, shared with SN 6.7?
Correct: A. The identical warning carried over from SN 6.7's verse.
Question 6 of 10
Where does this discourse take place?
Correct: A. The same setting as SN 6.7, unchanged.
Question 7 of 10
What does reading SN 6.7 and SN 6.8 together suggest?
Correct: A. The recurring warning addressed as a theme, not a single incident.
Question 8 of 10
How is Katamorakatissaka introduced in this discourse?
Correct: A. The discourse names him without narrating any further story.
Question 9 of 10
What does "akissava" mean?
Correct: A. A sharper classification than SN 6.7's more neutral "ordinary person."
Question 10 of 10
What remains unchanged between SN 6.7 and SN 6.8's verses?
Correct: A. Making the deliberate final-word change stand out precisely because the rest is unchanged.
