Sutta Nipāta · Discourse 4.9

With Māgaṇḍiya

Māgaṇḍiyasutta

Setting
Not named within the verse itself; the tradition places the exchange in Kuru country, at the home of the wanderer Māgaṇḍiya
Speakers
The Buddha and the wanderer Māgaṇḍiya
Form
Continuous verse dialogue, minimal narrative frame — the poem opens already inside the exchange
Length
~3 minutes to read
Northern parallel
A version of much of the Aṭṭhakavagga survives in the Chinese Yizu Jing (義足經, T198), translated in the 3rd century CE, though exact correspondence to this individual sutta is not asserted here
Difficulty
★★★★★ — dense, allusive philosophical dialogue, among the oldest verse material in the entire canon

Why this discourse, the ninth

Māgaṇḍiya appears under his own name in two places in the Pāli Canon, and together they read like two chapters of a single story. In the Majjhima Nikāya’s own Māgaṇḍiyasutta (MN 75), already on this site, he is a hedonist philosopher who brands the Buddha a “killer of growth” for teaching restraint, and is won over only by an extended argument about health, disease, and the nature of pleasure. The commentarial tradition places this shorter, far older verse dialogue earlier in that same relationship: Māgaṇḍiya, struck by the ascetic’s bearing, offers his own daughter in marriage; refused, he does not take offense but presses the Buddha for the reasoning behind it. What follows is compressed to the edge of paradox — a teacher explaining, without once landing on a position, why he holds no position at all. A well-known passage in the Udāna has a monk named Soṇa reciting the entire Aṭṭhakavagga, verse for verse, before the Buddha, who praises his diction and his memory — a sign of just how established, and how prized, verses like these already were within the earliest community.

Reading guide

The teaching in one sentence

Asked to defend the philosophy behind an unusual refusal, the Buddha describes a peace that comes not from settling on the correct view but from relinquishing every view — not adopting a position, and not adopting the absence of one either, since even that would be a position in disguise.

An offer, and a question

The dialogue opens mid-scene. The Buddha recalls that even when he once saw the daughters of Māra — sirens named Craving, Malignancy, and Lust — he felt no desire for them at all, dismissing his own body as “full of piss and shit,” not worth touching with a foot. Māgaṇḍiya, who has evidently just offered his own daughter in marriage and been turned down, is baffled: if the Buddha will not want “a gem such as this, a lady desired by many rulers of men,” then what theory, precepts, livelihood, or view of rebirth could possibly justify refusing her? The premise of the question is telling — Māgaṇḍiya assumes the refusal must rest on some rival doctrine, a competing claim about what is truly worth wanting.

Peace without adopting a view

The Buddha’s answer refuses the premise. He has not adopted any teaching “thinking, ‘I assert this’” — he has seen views without taking hold of any of them, and it was in that search itself, not in its conclusion, that he found peace. Māgaṇḍiya pushes further: surely that description of “inner peace” is itself a position being asserted. The Buddha’s reply is the discourse’s hardest turn: purity, he says, is spoken of neither as coming from view, learning, knowledge, or precepts and vows, nor as coming from their absence. Relinquish these without adopting them — not exchanging one attachment for another, but genuinely letting go — and one becomes peaceful, independent, no longer even praying for another life. Māgaṇḍiya calls this “sheer folly”: surely purity has to come from somewhere.

Not two positions, but no position

The Buddha’s response diagnoses Māgaṇḍiya’s confusion rather than arguing the point further: still relying on a view himself, Māgaṇḍiya is trying to hear the teaching from inside the very habit it is meant to dissolve, which is why it sounds like folly to him. The text then names what it calls the “three discriminations” — thinking oneself equal, better, or worse than another — as the actual engine of dispute. A brahmin, in the sutta’s honorific sense, who does not waver among these three has nothing left to assert as true and nothing to defend as false, and so simply cannot be drawn into debate; there is no symmetrical or asymmetrical standing from which an argument could even get started.

The unsullied lotus

The closing verses turn from argument to portrait. Having left behind any fixed base, the sage wanders without a home, doesn’t grow close to anyone in a town, and, rid of sensual pleasure, has nothing left to want that could draw him into a quarrel. The discourse’s most enduring image follows: “as a prickly lotus born in the water is unsullied by water and mud, so the greedless sage, proponent of peace, is unsmeared by sensuality and the world” — growing directly out of the very element that would stain anything else, and remaining clean. A knowledge master, the closing lines add, doesn’t become conceited over view or thought, needs no deeds or learning to prop up an identity, and isn’t indoctrinated into any dogma; only those who have adopted ideas and views, the sutta ends, wander the world causing conflict.

Key terms

Māgaṇḍiya — a wanderer and philosopher who, in the parallel tradition of MN 75, resists the Buddha’s teaching at length before eventually being won over; this verse dialogue is traditionally placed earlier in the same relationship.
“I assert this” — the exact phrase the Buddha denies ever having thought about any teaching — the discourse’s shorthand for the basic act of adopting a fixed position.
the three discriminations — thinking oneself equal, better, or worse than another — named here as the root from which disputation grows, since without any of the three there is no footing from which to argue.
the lotus simile — a prickly lotus, born in water, that remains unsullied by the water and mud that surround it — the discourse’s image for a sage who lives in the world of the senses without being stained by it.
MN 75 — the longer Māgaṇḍiyasutta of the Majjhima Nikāya, already on this site, which develops the same wanderer’s eventual conversion at much greater length through the simile of disease and health.

The text

The discourse in full, all thirteen verses of dialogue between the Buddha and Māgaṇḍiya. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

Verse 1“Even when I saw the sirens Craving, Malignancy, and Lust,
I had no desire for sex.
What is this body full of piss and shit?
I wouldn’t even want to touch it with my foot.”

Verse 2“If you do not want a gem such as this,
a lady desired by many rulers of men,
then what manner of theory, precepts and vows, livelihood,
and rebirth in a new life do you assert?”

Verse 3“After judging among the teachings,”
said the Buddha to Māgaṇḍiya,
“none have been adopted thinking, ‘I assert this.’
Seeing views without adopting any,
searching, I saw inner peace.”

Verse 4“O sage, you speak of judgments you have formed,”
said Māgaṇḍiya,
“without having adopted any of those views.
As to that matter of ‘inner peace’—
how is that described by the attentive?”

Verse 5“Purity is spoken of not as due to view,”
said the Buddha to Māgaṇḍiya,
“learning, knowledge, or precepts and vows;
nor without view, learning,
knowledge, or precepts and vows.
Having relinquished these, not adopting them,
peaceful, independent, one would not pray for another life.”

Verse 6“It seems purity is spoken of not as due to view,”
said Māgaṇḍiya,
“learning, knowledge, or precepts and vows;
nor without view, learning,
knowledge, or precepts and vows.
If so, I think this teaching is sheer folly;
some believe that purity comes from view.”

Verse 7“Continuing to question while relying on a view,”
said the Buddha to Māgaṇḍiya,
“you’ve become confused by all you’ve adopted.
From this you’ve not glimpsed the slightest idea,
which is why you consider the teaching folly.

Verse 8If you think that ‘I’m equal,
special, or worse’, you’ll dispute about that.
Not wavering due to the three discriminations,
they have no thought, ‘I’m equal or special’.

Verse 9Why would that brahmin say, ‘It’s true’,
or with whom would they dispute, ‘It’s false’?
There is no equal or unequal in them,
so who would they take on in debate?

Verse 10After leaving their bastion to migrate without abode,
a sage doesn’t get close to anyone in town.
Rid of sensual pleasures, not expecting,
they wouldn’t get in arguments with people.

Verse 11A spiritual giant would not take up for debate
the things in the world from which they live secluded.
As a prickly lotus born in the water
is unsullied by water and mud,
so the greedless sage, proponent of peace,
is unsmeared by sensuality and the world.

Verse 12A knowledge master does not become conceited
due to view or thought, for they are not determined by that.
They’ve no need for deeds or learning,
they’re not indoctrinated in dogmas.

Verse 13There are no ties for one detached from ideas;
there are no delusions for one freed by wisdom.
But those who have adopted ideas and views
wander the world causing conflict.”

· · ·

Self-check quiz

Ten questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 10
What does Māgaṇḍiya offer the Buddha at the start of the exchange, only to be refused?
Correct: C. Māgaṇḍiya assumes the refusal must rest on some rival doctrine about what is truly worth wanting.
Question 2 of 10
What does the Buddha say about his own state of mind, even when he once saw the sirens Craving, Malignancy, and Lust?
Correct: A. This recollection opens the dialogue and sets up his refusal of Māgaṇḍiya’s daughter.
Question 3 of 10
How does the Buddha describe his relationship to teachings and doctrines?
Correct: D. This is the discourse’s central, paradoxical claim about peace without a fixed position.
Question 4 of 10
When Māgaṇḍiya presses further, what does the Buddha say about where purity comes from?
Correct: B. Relinquishing these without adopting them — not trading one attachment for another — is what the Buddha describes as peaceful and independent.
Question 5 of 10
How does Māgaṇḍiya react to this answer?
Correct: C. His objection assumes purity has to come from somewhere identifiable — exactly the assumption the Buddha is questioning.
Question 6 of 10
How does the Buddha diagnose Māgaṇḍiya’s confusion?
Correct: A. This is why the teaching sounds like folly to him — he is listening for a rival position rather than the absence of one.
Question 7 of 10
What are the “three discriminations” the discourse names as the root of dispute?
Correct: D. One who does not waver among these three has nothing to assert or defend, and so cannot be drawn into an argument.
Question 8 of 10
What is the discourse’s central simile for the sage’s relationship to sensuality and the world?
Correct: B. The image works because the lotus grows directly out of the element that would stain anything else, and stays clean.
Question 9 of 10
According to the reading guide, how does this discourse relate to MN 75, also called “With Māgaṇḍiya”?
Correct: C. MN 75 develops Māgaṇḍiya’s eventual conversion through the extended simile of disease and health.
Question 10 of 10
What does the discourse say happens to those who adopt fixed ideas and views?
Correct: A. This closing line contrasts directly with the peace described as available to one who adopts no view at all.
Answered 0 of 10 · Correct 0