Reading guide
The discourse in one sentence
Nanda, the seventh of Bāvarī's sixteen students, asks what actually makes someone a sage; the Buddha rejects view, learning, and knowledge as the defining criteria, and then, across two more exchanges built on a repeated formula, explains that ascetics and brahmins who ground their purity in what is seen, heard, or vowed have not crossed the flood — only those who have fully understood and given up craving have.
The frame: the seventh of sixteen questions
As Snp 5.1 tells in full, Bāvarī, an aged brahmin teacher unable to travel himself, sent sixteen of his finest students — Ajita, Tissametteyya, Puṇṇaka, Mettagū, Dhotaka, Upasīva, Nanda, Hemaka, Todeyya, Kappa, Jatukaṇṇī, Bhadrāvudha, Udaya, Posāla, Mogharāja, and Piṅgiya — to question the newly awakened Buddha directly. Six students have already spoken, in Snp 5.2 through 5.7; Nanda, seventh in Bāvarī's list, now asks about the nature of sagehood itself.
What makes a sage: not knowledge, but a way of life
Nanda's opening question is almost sociological: people say there are sages in the world, but how is this the case — is someone called a sage because of their knowledge, or because of their way of life? The Buddha's answer rejects the premise built into the question's first option outright: “Experts do not speak of a sage in terms of view, learning, or knowledge.” Instead, those who are sages “live far from the crowd,” untroubled, “with no need for hope.” Credentials and doctrine are set aside in favor of a description of how a person actually lives.
A repeated formula, asked twice
The discourse's middle section is built almost like a refrain. Nanda asks about ascetics and brahmins who “speak of purity in terms of what is seen or heard, or in terms of precepts and vows, or in terms of countless different things” — and whether, living self-controlled in that matter, they have crossed over rebirth and old age. The Buddha answers, using nearly identical language to restate the question before answering it: no, they have not crossed over, even though they live self-controlled by their own standard. Undeterred, Nanda repeats the same description of these ascetics and brahmins almost verbatim a second time, now asking directly: if not them, then who in the world of gods and humans has actually crossed over?
What actually crosses the flood
The Buddha's final answer is careful to avoid overreach in the opposite direction: he does not say that all ascetics and brahmins are “shrouded by rebirth and old age” as a blanket claim. Rather, there are those — a real minority within the same religious landscape — who have given up everything “ seen, heard, and thought,” and precepts and vows, and all the countless other criteria people cling to. “Fully understanding craving, they are free of defilements” — and it is precisely these people, not any particular ritual or credential, whom the Buddha says have crossed the flood.
Nanda's answer, echoing the Buddha's own words
The discourse closes with something distinctive within this chapter: Nanda's final response does not simply express generic praise, but repeats the Buddha's own description almost word for word — “there are those here who have given up all that is seen, heard, and thought, and precepts and vows... fully understanding craving, they are free of defilements, those people, I agree, have crossed the flood.” The repetition itself performs the discourse's point: understanding here is not a matter of hearing something new, but of a student genuinely taking hold of, and being able to restate for himself, what has been explained.
Key terms
The text
Verse 1077“People say there are sages in the world,”
said Venerable Nanda,
“but how is this the case?
Is someone called a sage because of their knowledge,
or because of their way of life?”
Verse 1078“Experts do not speak of a sage in terms of
view, learning, or knowledge.
Those who are sages live far from the crowd, I say,
untroubled, with no need for hope.”
Verse 1079“As to those ascetics and brahmins,”
said Venerable Nanda,
“who speak of purity in terms of what is seen or heard,
or in terms of precepts and vows,
or in terms of countless different things.
Living self-controlled in that matter,
have they crossed over rebirth and old age, good fellow?
I ask you, Blessed One; please tell me this.”
Verse 1080“As to those ascetics and brahmins,”
replied the Buddha,
“who speak of purity in terms of what is seen or heard,
or in terms of precepts and vows,
or in terms of countless different things.
Even though they live self-controlled in that matter,
they’ve not crossed over rebirth and old age, I declare.”
Verse 1081“As to those ascetics and brahmins,”
said Venerable Nanda,
“who speak of purity in terms of what is seen or heard,
or in terms of precepts and vows,
or in terms of countless different things.
You say they have not crossed the flood, sage.
So who then in the world of gods and humans
has crossed over rebirth and old age, good fellow?
I ask you, Blessed One; please tell me this.”
Verse 1082“I don’t say that all ascetics and brahmins,”
replied the Buddha,
“are shrouded by rebirth and old age.
There are those here who have given up all
that is seen, heard, and thought, and precepts and vows,
who have given up all the countless different things.
Fully understanding craving, they are free of defilements,
those people, I say, have crossed the flood.”
Verse 1083“I rejoice in the words of the great seer!
You have expounded non-attachment well, Gotama.
There are those here who have given up all
that is seen, heard, and thought, and precepts and vows,
who have given up all the countless different things.
Fully understanding craving, they are free of defilements,
those people, I agree, have crossed the flood.”
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