Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 23.5

Ascetics and Brahmins

Paṭhamasamaṇabrāhmaṇasutta — Māravagga

Setting
Sāvatthī
Speakers
The Buddha, teaching Venerable Rādha directly
Form
The Buddha's own initiative, combining the content of SN 22.107-108 into a single fuller discourse for Rādha
Length
Medium — fuller than either of its two source discourses individually
Northern parallel
Combines material from SN 22.107 and SN 22.108
Difficulty
Approachable — best read alongside SN 22.107-108

Why this discourse

Where Antavagga split the ascetics-and-brahmins material across two discourses (SN 22.107's bare triad, SN 22.108's fuller five-point stakes), this discourse for Rādha combines them: the gratification/drawback/escape triad given in full, with the explicit stake — realizing "the goal of life as an ascetic or brahmin" — stated directly rather than split across a companion discourse.

Reading guide

The triad, now with its consequence spelled out at once

"There are ascetics and brahmins who don't truly understand these five grasping aggregates' gratification, drawback, and escape. I don't deem them as true ascetics and brahmins" — where SN 22.107 left the consequence entirely unstated, this discourse for Rādha states it immediately: failure to understand this triad disqualifies one from truly being an ascetic or brahmin at all.

The Buddha's own explicit judgment

"I don't deem them as true ascetics and brahmins" — a direct first-person verdict (na... maññāmi) not present in quite this explicit form at SN 22.107-108, giving this version of the teaching a more personally invested tone, fitting for a discourse addressed to one particular disciple.

The positive case, equally direct

"There are ascetics and brahmins who do truly understand these five grasping aggregates' gratification, drawback, and escape. I deem them as true ascetics and brahmins. Those venerables realize the goal of life... and live having realized it with their own insight" — the full positive consequence, matching SN 22.108's own content but compressed into one discourse rather than two.

Reuse with compression, not mere repetition

This discourse demonstrates a slightly different mode of reuse than SN 23.4's exact duplication: rather than reproducing either SN 22.107 or SN 22.108 alone, it merges their content into a single fuller discourse — showing this book's technical material can be recombined as well as simply repeated when addressed to a new audience.

Key terms

samaṇabrāhmaṇā — ascetics and brahmins — the two categories of religious practitioners this discourse judges
assāda/ādīnava/nissaraṇa — gratification / drawback / escape — the triad determining true or false status as an ascetic or brahmin
na... maññāmi — "I don't deem [them as]" — the Buddha's own direct first-person verdict
sāmaññattha — the goal of life as an ascetic — what is realized or missed depending on this understanding
sacchikatvā — having realized with one's own insight — the lived, self-verified nature of the successful case

The text

The complete discourse, combining SN 22.107's triad with SN 22.108's explicit stakes into a single fuller teaching for Rādha. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

§1At Sāvatthī. When Venerable Rādha was seated to one side, the Buddha said to him: “Rādha, there are these five grasping aggregates. What five? The grasping aggregates of form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness.

§2There are ascetics and brahmins who don’t truly understand these five grasping aggregates’ gratification, drawback, and escape. I don’t deem them as true ascetics and brahmins. Those venerables don’t realize the goal of life as an ascetic or brahmin, and don’t live having realized it with their own insight.

§3There are ascetics and brahmins who do truly understand these five grasping aggregates’ gratification, drawback, and escape. I deem them as true ascetics and brahmins. Those venerables realize the goal of life as an ascetic or brahmin, and live having realized it with their own insight.”

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Self-check quiz

Ten questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 10
What two earlier discourses does this discourse's content combine?
Correct: A. Merging the bare triad and its fuller stakes into one discourse for Rādha.
Question 2 of 10
What does the Buddha say about ascetics and brahmins who fail to understand the triad?
Correct: A. A direct first-person verdict, more explicit than SN 22.107's own bare statement.
Question 3 of 10
What triad determines true or false status as an ascetic or brahmin?
Correct: A. The same triad from SN 22.107, now with its consequence stated immediately.
Question 4 of 10
What is said of ascetics and brahmins who do truly understand the triad?
Correct: A. Matching SN 22.108's own positive consequence, now given in the same discourse as the negative case.
Question 5 of 10
How does this discourse's mode of reuse differ from SN 23.4's?
Correct: A. Showing this book's material can be recombined, not just repeated.
Question 6 of 10
How many grasping aggregates does this discourse name?
Correct: A. Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness, as throughout this book.
Question 7 of 10
What tone does the Buddha's explicit first-person verdict give this discourse?
Correct: A. Distinct from the more measured phrasing at SN 22.107-108.
Question 8 of 10
Where is this discourse set?
Correct: A. Matching SN 23.1-4's own setting.
Question 9 of 10
What does "sacchikatvā" specifically emphasize about the successful case?
Correct: A. "Having realized with one's own insight" — a personally verified attainment.
Question 10 of 10
What comes next in Māravagga after this discourse?
Correct: A. Continuing this vagga's own reuse of Antavagga's material.
Answered 0 of 10 · Correct 0