Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 23.6

Ascetics and Brahmins (2nd)

Dutiyasamaṇabrāhmaṇasutta — Māravagga

Setting
Sāvatthī
Speakers
The Buddha, teaching Venerable Rādha directly
Form
The identical structure as SN 23.5, expanded to the five-point formula and elided in the source
Length
Short — heavily elided, trusting SN 23.5's own fuller statement
Northern parallel
Corresponds to the five-point formula used at SN 22.108, SN 22.131-132
Difficulty
Approachable — best read directly after SN 23.5

Why this discourse

The direct companion to SN 23.5, expanding its triad to the fuller five-point formula (adding origin and disappearance) already familiar from SN 22.108 and SN 22.131-132 — and, true to this book's usual practice, compressed heavily in the source text since the fuller version was just given in full.

Reading guide

Five points, elided since the pattern is now established

"There are ascetics and brahmins who don't truly understand these five grasping aggregates' origin, disappearance, gratification, drawback, and escape..." — the source text elides the remainder with an ellipsis, trusting the reader to supply SN 23.5's own fuller statement with two additional points inserted.

The same explicit verdict, now for the five-point version

The Buddha's judgment — true or false ascetic and brahmin status, realizing or missing the goal of life — carries over unchanged from SN 23.5, now attached to the fuller five-point criterion rather than the bare triad.

A pairing method already seen throughout this book

This triad-then-five-point pairing exactly repeats the structure already used at SN 22.107-108 for the original version of this material — confirming that even when content is transplanted into a new saṃyutta for a new audience, the underlying compositional patterns travel with it unchanged.

Moving toward stream-entry and arahantship

SN 23.7 and SN 23.8 will continue this vagga's reuse pattern, personally restating SN 22.109's stream-enterer formula and SN 22.110's arahant formula for Rādha in turn.

Key terms

samudaya/atthaṅgama — origin / disappearance — the two points added to SN 23.5's own triad
assāda/ādīnava/nissaraṇa — gratification / drawback / escape — the triad shared with SN 23.5
sāmaññattha — the goal of life as an ascetic — the same stake named in SN 23.5
na... maññāmi — "I don't deem [them as]" — the same explicit verdict carried over from SN 23.5
peyyāla — an elision mark — representing the unstated remainder trusted to SN 23.5's own fuller statement

The text

The complete discourse as given in the source, expanding SN 23.5's triad with the elided remainder. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

§1At Sāvatthī. When Venerable Rādha was seated to one side, the Buddha said to him: “Rādha, there are these five grasping aggregates. What five? The grasping aggregates of form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness.

§2There are ascetics and brahmins who don’t truly understand these five grasping aggregates’ origin, disappearance, gratification, drawback, and escape … Those venerables don’t realize the goal of life as an ascetic or brahmin …

§3There are ascetics and brahmins who do truly understand … Those venerables realize the goal of life as an ascetic or brahmin, and live having realized it with their own insight.”

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Self-check quiz

Ten questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 10
How does this discourse expand on SN 23.5's own triad?
Correct: A. The same expansion already seen at SN 22.107-108.
Question 2 of 10
How much text does the source give for this discourse?
Correct: A. Trusting the reader to supply SN 23.5's own fuller statement.
Question 3 of 10
What earlier pairing in this book does this triad-then-five-point structure repeat?
Correct: A. The same compositional pattern, now applied to Rādha's own material.
Question 4 of 10
What does this repeated pattern confirm about the collection's method?
Correct: A. Confirming this book's method is consistent across contexts.
Question 5 of 10
What does the Buddha's verdict remain, now attached to the five-point criterion?
Correct: A. Carrying over unchanged from SN 23.5.
Question 6 of 10
What discourses will continue this vagga's reuse pattern next?
Correct: A. Personally restating SN 22.109-110 for Rādha in turn.
Question 7 of 10
How many aggregates does this five-point formula apply to?
Correct: A. Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness.
Question 8 of 10
Where is this discourse set?
Correct: A. Matching SN 23.5's own setting.
Question 9 of 10
What two categories of practitioners does this discourse judge?
Correct: A. The same paired category as SN 23.5.
Question 10 of 10
What does elision at this point in the vagga suggest about the collection's confidence in its own established pattern?
Correct: A. A pattern seen throughout this book whenever closely paired discourses appear together.
Answered 0 of 10 · Correct 0