Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 24.36

Neither Still Exists Nor No Longer Exists

Dutiyanevahotinanahotitathāgatosutta — Dutiyagamanavagga

Setting
Sāvatthī
Speakers
The Buddha addressing the mendicants
Form
SN 24.18's own eighteenth view, re-examined in full with the same seventh-ground addition shown at SN 24.19
Length
~2 minutes to read
Northern parallel
A rough counterpart may exist in the Chinese Saṃyukta-āgama (T99), though this reading guide does not assert a specific matching sutra number
Difficulty
★★☆☆☆ — the underlying view is subtle, matching SN 24.18's own difficulty

Why this discourse

Closes this vagga's own reuse of Sotāpattivagga's eighteen-topic catalog: the eighteenth and final view ("a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death"), already given full treatment at SN 24.18, re-examined here with SN 24.19's own seventh-ground addition. With this discourse, all eighteen original topics have now been revisited a second time — only the eight genuinely new topics (SN 24.37–44) remain.

Reading guide

The same view, closing this reused set

"A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death" — identical to SN 24.18's own claim, the fourth option of the tathāgata foursome, given individual treatment here rather than folded into SN 24.20–35's merged reference.

Full elaboration, unlike its sixteen neighbors

Like SN 24.19, this discourse receives full aggregate-by-aggregate elaboration rather than SN 24.20–35's single-line compression — bracketing that merged block with its own first and last topics both spelled out completely, exactly as SN 24.1 and SN 24.18 bracketed the first round.

The seventh ground, demonstrated a second time

As at SN 24.19, the catechism concludes by naming suffering itself an additional graspable basis: "and so, when suffering exists, because of grasping suffering and insisting on suffering, the view arises..." — the same addition, now applied to this vagga's closing topic rather than its opening one.

Eighteen topics, twice through

With this discourse, this vagga's reuse of Sotāpattivagga's full catalog is complete: SN 24.19 (topic 1) and this discourse (topic 18) both fully elaborated, SN 24.20–35 (topics 2–17) compressed to a single cross-reference. What remains is genuinely new material — eight further views (SN 24.37–44) extending the tathāgata foursome's own four-corner logic into two new dimensions.

Key terms

neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā — a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death — identical to SN 24.18's own claim, this vagga's own eighteenth and final reused topic
dukkhaṁ upādāya, dukkhaṁ abhinivissa — grasping suffering and insisting on suffering — the seventh ground demonstrated a second time, closing this vagga's reused catalog
upādāya... abhinivissa — grasping... and insisting on — this book's standing two-condition formula
dutiyagamana — the second round — this vagga's own name, now fully demonstrated across its opening and closing topics
catuṣkoṭi — "four corners" — the logical pattern this topic completes for the tathāgata foursome, about to be extended into two new dimensions at SN 24.37

The text

The complete discourse: the view re-examined with the added seventh ground. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

§1At Sāvatthī. “Mendicants, when what exists, because of grasping what and insisting on what, does the view arise: ‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death’?” “Our teachings are rooted in the Buddha. …”

§2“When form exists, because of grasping form and insisting on form, the view arises: ‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ When feeling … perception … choices … consciousness exists, because of grasping consciousness and insisting on consciousness, the view arises: ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’

§3What do you think, mendicants? Is form permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent, sir.” … “And so, when suffering exists, because of grasping suffering and insisting on suffering, the view arises: ‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’” … “Is feeling … perception … choices … consciousness permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent, sir.” … “But by not grasping what’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, would such a view arise?” “No, sir.” “And so, when suffering exists, because of grasping suffering and insisting on suffering, the view arises: ‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’”

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Self-check quiz

Ten questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 10
What view does this discourse re-examine?
Correct: A. The eighteenth and final topic of the original catalog, revisited a second time.
Question 2 of 10
How does this discourse's treatment compare to SN 24.20–35's compression?
Correct: A. This vagga's own first and last reused topics both spelled out completely.
Question 3 of 10
What addition does this discourse demonstrate a second time?
Correct: A. The same seventh-ground addition shown at SN 24.19, now applied to this vagga's closing reused topic.
Question 4 of 10
What does this discourse complete, in terms of this vagga's own structure?
Correct: A. SN 24.19 and this discourse bracket SN 24.20–35's compressed middle sixteen.
Question 5 of 10
What remains after this discourse, to complete this vagga's own twenty-six sutta-numbers?
Correct: A. New material extending beyond anything examined in Sotāpattivagga.
Question 6 of 10
Where is this discourse set?
Correct: A. Matching the setting of most of this book's discourses.
Question 7 of 10
What logical pattern does the tathāgata foursome (including this topic) represent?
Correct: A. Already established at SN 24.15–18, now revisited a second time here.
Question 8 of 10
How many aggregates does this discourse's catechism examine, plus the seventh ground?
Correct: A. Form, feeling, perception, choices, consciousness, and suffering itself.
Question 9 of 10
What discourse immediately follows this one?
Correct: A. The self's bodily form after death, a dimension not examined anywhere in Sotāpattivagga.
Question 10 of 10
What discourse precedes this one in Dutiyagamanavagga's sequence?
Correct: A. This discourse immediately follows the compressed middle block.
Answered 0 of 10 · Correct 0