Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 24.71

Winds

Catutthavātasutta — Catutthagamanavagga

Setting
Sāvatthī
Speakers
The Buddha addressing the mendicants
Form
SN 24.1's own opening view, used once more to identify what's being grasped, but now answered with the classic aggregate-liberation catechism and an arahant conclusion rather than a repeat of the stream-enterer formula
Length
~3 minutes to read
Northern parallel
A rough counterpart may exist in the Chinese Saṃyukta-āgama (T99), though this reading guide does not assert a specific matching sutra number
Difficulty
★★★☆☆ — the structural shift from the first three vaggas is significant and rewards careful comparison

Why this discourse

Opens Catutthagamanavagga ("the Chapter on the Fourth Round") — and, confirmed only by reading this discourse itself rather than assuming a fourth mechanical repetition, reveals a genuine structural pivot. The opening view ("winds don't blow...") and the aggregate identification are unchanged from the first three vaggas, but the follow-up question and the conclusion both change completely: rather than re-testing the specific view and declaring stream-entry, this discourse pivots to the universal self-view formula ("this is mine, I am this, this is my self") and closes with the short form of this book's arahant refrain.

Reading guide

The same opening, a fourth time

"Winds don't blow; rivers don't flow; pregnant women don't give birth; the moon and stars neither rise nor set, but stand firm like a pillar" — identical to SN 24.1, SN 24.19, and SN 24.45's own opening claims, used here purely as the occasion for identifying which aggregate is being grasped, not as the thing the remainder of the discourse continues to examine.

A different follow-up question, a genuine pivot

Where the first three vaggas asked "would the view [winds don't blow...] arise?" after establishing each aggregate's impermanence, this discourse instead asks: "is it fit to be regarded thus: 'This is mine, I am this, this is my self'?" — substituting this book's own universal self-view formula (already familiar from SN 22.151 and SN 24.2) for the specific "winds" claim.

This is not a minor wording variation like SN 24.45's condensed suffering-ground: it is a different diagnostic question entirely, testing the general root of self-view rather than re-confirming the particular view this discourse opened with.

The full liberation instruction, not a stream-entry declaration

The catechism concludes not with "given up doubt... stream-enterer," but with the Khandhavagga-style positive instruction: "you should truly see any kind of form at all—past, future, or present; internal or external...—with right understanding: 'This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self,'" followed by the short arahant refrain: "seeing this... they understand: 'there is nothing further for this place.'"

This exact instruction and refrain are the same ones used throughout SN 22 for full liberation, not the sotāpanna-specific formula this saṃyutta has used consistently since SN 24.1.

Why round four could not simply repeat rounds one through three

Having used the twenty-six-topic catalog three times over to certify stream-entry, this saṃyutta's fourth and final round repurposes the same twenty-six occasions of wrong-view diagnosis as the springboard for full liberation instead — a genuine escalation in the text's own soteriological ambition, not a fourth mechanical loop.

Key terms

etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā — "this is mine, I am this, this is my self" — the universal self-view formula this discourse substitutes for the specific "winds" claim's own re-examination
catutthagamana — the fourth round — this vagga's own name, marking a genuine pivot rather than a fourth mechanical repetition
nāhaṁ etaṁ, na esohamasmi, na meso attā — "this is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self" — the positive instruction this discourse concludes with, familiar from Khandhavagga's own liberation formula
natthi dāni idaṁ punabbhavo — "there is nothing further for this place" — the short-form arahant refrain closing this discourse, distinct from this saṃyutta's earlier stream-enterer conclusions
upādāya... abhinivissa — grasping... and insisting on — this book's standing two-condition formula, still used to open this discourse despite its changed conclusion

The text

The complete discourse: the familiar opening view, the aggregate identification, and the pivot to the universal self-view catechism and arahant conclusion. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

§1At Sāvatthī. “Mendicants, when what exists, because of grasping what and insisting on what, does the view arise: ‘Winds don’t blow; rivers don’t flow; pregnant women don’t give birth; the moon and stars neither rise nor set, but stand firm like a pillar’?” “Our teachings are rooted in the Buddha. …”

§2“When form exists, because of grasping form and insisting on form, the view arises: ‘Winds don’t blow; rivers don’t flow; pregnant women don’t give birth; the moon and stars neither rise nor set, but stand firm like a pillar.’ When feeling … perception … choices … consciousness exists, because of grasping consciousness and insisting on consciousness, the view arises: ‘Winds don’t blow; rivers don’t flow; pregnant women don’t give birth; the moon and stars neither rise nor set, but stand firm like a pillar.’ What do you think, mendicants? Is form permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent, sir.” “But if it’s impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?” “Suffering, sir.” “But if it’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, is it fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?” “No, sir.” “Is feeling … perception … choices … consciousness permanent or impermanent?” “Impermanent, sir.” “But if it’s impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?” “Suffering, sir.” “But if it’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, is it fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?” “No, sir.”

§3“So you should truly see any kind of form at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; solid or subtle; inferior or superior; far or near: <em>all</em> form—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ You should truly see any kind of feeling … perception … choices … consciousness at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; solid or subtle; inferior or superior; far or near: <em>all</em> consciousness—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ Seeing this … They understand: ‘… there is nothing further for this place.’”

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Self-check quiz

Ten questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 10
What opening view does this discourse begin with?
Correct: A. Used here purely as the occasion for identifying which aggregate is being grasped.
Question 2 of 10
What follow-up question does this discourse ask, unlike the first three vaggas?
Correct: A. Substituting the general root of self-view for the specific opening claim.
Question 3 of 10
How does this discourse's conclusion differ from the first three vaggas' stream-enterer declarations?
Correct: A. The same instruction and refrain used throughout SN 22 for full liberation.
Question 4 of 10
Why is this discourse's follow-up question a genuine structural pivot, not a minor variation?
Correct: A. A different diagnostic question entirely, not a wording adjustment.
Question 5 of 10
What does this reading guide say about why round four could not simply repeat rounds one through three?
Correct: A. A genuine escalation in soteriological ambition, confirmed only by reading the text directly.
Question 6 of 10
Where is this discourse set?
Correct: A. Matching the setting of most of this book's discourses.
Question 7 of 10
What vagga does this discourse open?
Correct: A. This saṃyutta's fourth and final vagga.
Question 8 of 10
What formula does this discourse's positive instruction use?
Correct: A. Familiar from Khandhavagga's own standing liberation formula.
Question 9 of 10
What short refrain closes this discourse?
Correct: A. The short-form arahant refrain, distinct from this saṃyutta's earlier stream-enterer conclusions.
Question 10 of 10
How is this discourse's own follow-up formula already familiar from earlier in this project?
Correct: A. The same three-part claim already examined twice before in this project.
Answered 0 of 10 · Correct 0