Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 42.9

Families

Kulasutta — Gāmaṇivagga

Setting
Nāḷandā, during a famine, Pāvārika's mango grove
Speakers
Nigaṇṭha Nātaputta instructing Asibandhaka's son to trap the Buddha; the chief then questioning the Buddha directly
Form
A staged two-horned dilemma, dismantled by a specific eightfold list
Length
~2 minutes to read
Northern parallel
A rough counterpart may exist in the Chinese Saṃyukta-āgama (T99), though this reading guide does not assert a specific matching sutra number
Difficulty
★★★☆☆ — a genuine rhetorical trap, cleanly dismantled

Why this discourse

This discourse stages a real adversarial encounter: Nigaṇṭha Nātaputta, already met by this project at SN 41.8, coaches Asibandhaka's son to trap the Buddha in an unanswerable dilemma — if the Buddha claims to praise kindness toward families, why does he travel with a large mendicant Saṅgha during a famine, “ruining families”? Nātaputta predicts the Buddha will be able “neither to spit it out nor swallow it down.” The Buddha's own answer refuses the dilemma's framing entirely: he names eight actual causes of a family's ruin (kings, thieves, fire, flood, lost savings, business failure, a wastrel heir, and impermanence itself), none of which include almsgiving, and states plainly that anyone repeating the accusation without abandoning it is headed for hell.

Reading guide

A trap staged in advance, not spontaneous

This discourse's own opening scene — Nātaputta coaching the exact wording, predicting the Buddha's helplessness — makes clear this is a deliberate rhetorical ambush, not an honest question, confirmed by reading the full staged instruction before the chief ever reaches the Buddha.

A dilemma refused, not answered on its own terms

The Buddha does not argue that receiving alms somehow benefits families; he rejects the premise outright by naming an entirely separate, exhaustive list of what actually ruins families — sidestepping the either/or trap rather than choosing one of its two horns.

Eight causes, ending in impermanence itself

Kings, thieves, fire, and flood name external threats; lost savings and business failure name misfortune; a wastrel heir names internal ruin; and impermanence itself closes the list as the eighth and final cause — a structure moving from external threat through human failure to the basic fact of change.

A direct verdict on the accusation itself

The Buddha's own closing statement — that anyone making this specific accusation without abandoning it is “placed in hell as if delivered there” — is unusually blunt, naming the false accusation itself, not merely a general wrong view, as the specific offense.

Key terms

nigaṇṭho nāṭaputto — “the Jain leader Nātaputta” — already encountered at SN 41.8, here staging this discourse's own rhetorical trap
ubhatokoṭikaṁ pañhaṁ — “a two-horned question” — Nātaputta's own term for the dilemma he predicts will leave the Buddha unable to answer
aṭṭha hetū, aṭṭha paccayā kulānaṁ upaghātāya — “eight causes and reasons for the ruin of families” — the Buddha's own list, refusing the dilemma's framing entirely
dānasambhūtāni... saccasambhūtāni... sāmaññasambhūtāni — “acquired through giving, truth, and restraint” — the Buddha's own account of how wealthy families actually became wealthy, directly opposing the accusation
yathābhataṁ nikkhitto evaṁ niraye — “placed in hell as if delivered there” — the Buddha's own blunt verdict on anyone maintaining the accusation without abandoning it

The text

The complete discourse. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

§1At one time the Buddha was wandering in the land of the Kosalans together with a large Saṅgha of mendicants when he arrived at Nāḷandā. There he stayed near Nāḷandā in Pāvārika’s mango grove. Now at that time Nāḷandā was undergoing famine and scarcity, with crops blighted and turned to straw. At that time the Jain ascetic of the Ñātika clan was residing at Nāḷandā together with a large assembly of Jain ascetics. Then Asibandhaka’s son the chief, who was a disciple of the Jains, went up to the Jain Ñātika, bowed, and sat down to one side. The Jain Ñātika said to him: “Come, chief, refute the ascetic Gotama’s doctrine. Then you will get a good reputation: ‘Asibandhaka’s son the chief refuted the doctrine of the ascetic Gotama, so mighty and powerful!’” “But sir, how am I to do this?” “Here, brahmin, go to the ascetic Gotama and say to him: ‘Sir, don’t you in many ways praise kindness, protection, and sympathy for families?’ When he’s asked this, if he answers: ‘Indeed I do, chief,’ say this to him: ‘So what then are you doing, wandering together with this large Saṅgha of mendicants during a time of famine and scarcity, with crops blighted and turned to straw? The Buddha is practicing to annihilate, collapse, and ruin families!’ When you put this dilemma to him, the Buddha won’t be able to either spit it out or swallow it down.” “Yes, sir,” replied Asibandhaka’s son. He got up from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled the Jain Ñātika, keeping him on his right. Then he went to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him: “Sir, don’t you in many ways praise kindness, protection, and sympathy for families?” “Indeed I do, chief.” “So what then are you doing, wandering together with this large Saṅgha of mendicants during a time of famine and scarcity, with crops blighted and turned to straw? The Buddha is practicing to annihilate, collapse, and ruin families!” “Well, chief, I recollect ninety-one eons back but I’m not aware of any family that’s been ruined merely by offering some cooked almsfood. Rather, rich, affluent, and wealthy families—with lots of gold and silver, lots of property and assets, and lots of money and grain—all acquired their wealth because of giving, truth, and restraint. Chief, there are eight causes and reasons for the ruin of families. Their ruin stems from rulers, bandits, fire, or flood. Or they lose their savings. Or their business fails due to not applying themselves to work. Or a wastrel is born into the family who squanders and fritters away their wealth. And impermanence is the eighth. These are the eight causes and reasons for the ruin of families. Given that these eight reasons are found, suppose someone says this: ‘The Buddha is practicing to annihilate, collapse, and ruin families!’ Unless they give up that speech and that thought, and let go of that view, they will be placed in hell as if delivered there.” When he said this, Asibandhaka’s son the chief said to the Buddha, “Excellent, sir! Excellent! … From this day forth, may the Buddha remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

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Self-check quiz

3 questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 3
Who coaches Asibandhaka's son to trap the Buddha in this discourse?
Correct: A. A deliberate rhetorical ambush staged and predicted in advance, not a spontaneous honest question.
Question 2 of 3
How does the Buddha respond to the two-horned dilemma?
Correct: A. Sidestepping the either/or trap rather than choosing one of its two options.
Question 3 of 3
What is the eighth and final cause of a family's ruin the Buddha names?
Correct: A. Closing a list that moves from external threat through human failure to the basic fact of change.
Answered 0 of 3 · Correct 0