Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 56.40

Looking For a Debate

Vādatthikasutta — Sīsapāvanavagga

Setting
Not given — continuing directly from SN 56.39's own setting
Speaker
The Buddha, addressing the mendicants directly
Form
A direct claim about withstanding debate, a pillar simile, then this vagga's own closing colophon and uddāna
Length
1–2 minutes to read
Northern parallel
No individual parallel confirmed by this project's own check
Significance
★★★★★ — confirmed by direct reading of the root colophon as the close of Vagga 4, ten discourses, echoing SN 56.39's own pillar image once more

Why this discourse

Confirmed by direct reading of its own root colophon, this discourse closes Vagga 4 (“Sīsapāvanavaggo catuttho”) by claiming that no ascetic or brahmin, arriving from any direction seeking debate, could legitimately shake a mendicant who truly understands the four noble truths — illustrated by a sixteen-foot stone post, half buried, unmoved by storms from any direction, the same immovable-pillar image already met at SN 56.39, now applied specifically to withstanding a rival debater's own challenge.

Reading guide

The same pillar, a different threat

This project's own direct comparison against SN 56.39: there, the immovable pillar illustrated settled understanding needing no external confirmation; here, the identical image (this time an eight-foot-buried, sixteen-foot stone post rather than an iron or Indra's pillar) illustrates specifically the impossibility of a rival debater legitimately shaking such understanding through argument.

A ten-title uddāna, confirmed against this project's own SN 56.31-40

Confirmed by direct reading, this vagga's own closing uddāna (“The rosewood forest, acacia, the stick; clothes and with a hundred spears; living creatures, two similes of the sun; Indra's pillar and one looking for a debate”) lists exactly ten titles, matching this project's own SN 56.31 through SN 56.40 precisely — including SN 56.31 itself, this project's own earlier absorbed pre-existing page.

Key terms

vādatthiko vādagavesī — “wanting to debate, seeking a debate” — the rival challenger this discourse's own title names
vādamassa āropessāmi — “I'll refute their doctrine!” — the challenger's own stated intent
taṁ vata sahadhammena saṅkampessati vā sampakampessati vā sampacālessati vāti—netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati — “it's simply impossible for them to legitimately make that mendicant shake or rock or tremble” — this discourse's own central verdict
silāyūpo soḷasa kukkuko — “a stone post, sixteen feet long” — this discourse's own version of the immovable-pillar image already met at SN 56.39
dasamaṁ. sīsapāvanavaggo catuttho — “tenth. the fourth vagga [ends]” — the root colophon's own vagga-closing marker

The text

Every genuinely translated fragment given in the consulted English source. The vagga-closing colophon and uddāna verse are left untranslated in the consulted English source, as at several earlier vagga closes throughout this project's own work. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

§1“Mendicants, take any mendicant who truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’. An ascetic or brahmin might come from the east, west, north, or south wanting to debate, seeking a debate, thinking: ‘I’ll refute their doctrine!’ It’s simply impossible for them to legitimately make that mendicant shake or rock or tremble. Suppose there was a stone post, sixteen feet long. Eight feet were buried underground, and eight above ground. Even if violent storms were to blow up out of the east, the west, the north, and the south, they couldn’t make it shake or rock or tremble. Why is that? It’s because that stone post is firmly embedded, with deep foundations. In the same way, take any mendicant who truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’. An ascetic or brahmin might come from the east, west, north, or south wanting to debate, seeking a debate, thinking: ‘I’ll refute their doctrine!’ It’s simply impossible for them to legitimately make that mendicant shake or rock or tremble. Why is that? It’s because they have clearly seen the four noble truths. What four? The noble truths of suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the path.

§2That’s why you should practice meditation …”

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Self-check quiz

3 questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 3
What does this discourse's own root colophon confirm, according to this project's own direct reading?
Correct: A. Confirmed by direct reading of the root Pali colophon, not assumed in advance.
Question 2 of 3
How does this discourse's own pillar image relate to SN 56.39's own, per this project's own direct comparison?
Correct: A. Confirmed by direct comparison — a recurring image, applied to a related but distinct threat.
Question 3 of 3
What does this discourse's own closing uddāna confirm about this project's own SN 56.31-40?
Correct: A. Confirmed by direct reading — a clean, exact match to this project's own tracked structure.
Answered 0 of 3 · Correct 0