Saṃyutta Nikāya · Discourse 44.4

With Sāriputta and Koṭṭhita (2nd)

Sāriputtakoṭṭhikasutta — Abyākatavagga

Setting
Isipatana's deer park, near Varanasi (continuing directly from SN 44.3)
Speakers
Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita questioning Venerable Sāriputta
Form
This run's own second reason, opening with a genuinely translated editorial cross-reference back to SN 44.3's own setting and closing question
Length
<1 minute to read
Northern parallel
No individual parallel confirmed by this project's own check
Difficulty
★☆☆☆☆ — short, one clear argument

Why this discourse

The second of four reasons Sāriputta gives Mahākoṭṭhita for the same undeclared questions: not truly knowing and seeing each of the five aggregates — its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation — is what generates the very thought that a realized one still exists, or doesn't, or both, or neither, after death. Truly knowing removes the thought entirely, rather than replacing it with a different, correct thought.

Reading guide

A cross-reference, genuinely translated

“(The same down as far as:)” is confirmed as real Sujato-translated editorial text, not a placeholder this reading guide invents — the source itself instructs the reciter to repeat SN 44.3's own setting and Mahākoṭṭhita's own closing question rather than restate them.

Not knowing generates the thought; knowing removes it

This discourse's own structure is symmetrical: not truly knowing each aggregate's own origin, cessation, and path to its cessation produces all four theses as thoughts that occur; truly knowing the same three things means none of the four thoughts occurs at all — confirmed by reading both halves of the discourse directly, a genuinely different mechanism from SN 44.3's own structural “included in” answer.

Key terms

ananubuddhaṁ appaṭividdhaṁ — “not truly knowing and seeing” — the condition this discourse identifies as generating all four undeclared theses as thoughts that actually occur
samudayaṁ atthaṅgamaṁ assādaṁ ādīnavaṁ nissaraṇaṁ — “origin... cessation... gratification... drawback... escape” — elements of the full analytical formula this discourse presupposes, abbreviated here to origin and cessation alone
nirodhagāminiṁ paṭipadaṁ — “the practice that leads to its cessation” — the third element of knowing, alongside origin and cessation, this discourse names for each aggregate
yathābhūtaṁ ñatvā ca disvā ca — “truly knowing and seeing” — the discourse's own second half, reversing the first to show the thought does not occur at all
ayaṁ hetu ayaṁ paccayo — “this is the cause, this is the reason” — the closing formula, filled here with a genuinely different content than SN 44.3's own

The text

The complete discourse, as genuinely translated. Translation: Bhikkhu Sujato (CC0, SuttaCentral).

Not truly knowing, and the thoughts that follow

§1At one time Venerable Sāriputta and Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita were staying near Varanasi, in the deer park at Isipatana. … (The same down as far as:) “What’s the cause, reverend, what’s the reason why this has not been declared by the Buddha?” “Reverend, not truly knowing and seeing form, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation, one thinks ‘a realized one still exists after death’ or ‘A realized one no longer exists after death’ or ‘a realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death’ or ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ Not truly knowing or seeing feeling … perception … choices … consciousness, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation, one thinks ‘a realized one still exists after death’ or ‘A realized one no longer exists after death’ or ‘a realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death’ or ‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’

Truly knowing, and the thoughts that do not

§2Truly knowing and seeing form … feeling … perception … choices … consciousness, its origin, its cessation, and the practice that leads to its cessation, one doesn’t think ‘a realized one still exists after death’ or ‘A realized one no longer exists after death’ or ‘a realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death’ or ‘a realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’ This is the cause, this is the reason why this has not been declared by the Buddha.”

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Self-check quiz

3 questions. Click an answer to see immediate feedback. No score is recorded — this is for your own checking.

Question 1 of 3
What reason does Sāriputta give in this discourse for why the four theses arise as thoughts at all?
Correct: A. A genuinely different mechanism from SN 44.3's own structural answer — this one is about ignorance producing the thought in the first place.
Question 2 of 3
How does this discourse open, compared to SN 44.3?
Correct: A. "(The same down as far as:)" — confirmed as real Sujato-translated text, not invented by this reading guide.
Question 3 of 3
What happens when the aggregates ARE truly known, according to this discourse's own second half?
Correct: A. Truly knowing removes the thought entirely, rather than replacing it with a different, correct thought.
Answered 0 of 3 · Correct 0