Part 6 of 14 · 破神品第二(三) · Complete

What the Self Is Supposed to Do

Refuting the Self, concluded破神品第二

The Outsider's last line of defense is not about what the self is or how it is known, but about the jobs it seems to be needed for. Somebody wields the senses as a reaper wields a sickle. Somebody's mouth waters at the sight of another man eating. Somebody carries habit across the gap between two lives, so that a newborn already knows how to grieve. Somebody joins what the left eye saw to what the right eye recognizes. Six jobs, six answers — and in every case the work turns out to be already done by something that was there all along. The chapter ends on four words of advice.

Translator: Ru-Yi Meditation Center Source: Taishō T30, no. 1569, 百論 Āryadeva (提婆), with Vasu's commentary (婆藪開士釋) Kumārajīva, revised 404 CE Reading notes: Ru-Yi, original

1. Reaping With a Sickle

The argument is from instrumentality. Eyes and ears are not themselves knowers — they are organs, no more knowing than a blade is. Something must be wielding them, and the image chosen is a farmer in a field.

Chinese Source

外曰:必有神取色等故(修妬路)。五情不能知五塵,非知法故,是故知神能知。神用眼等知色等諸塵,如人以鎌收刈五穀。

內曰:何不用耳見(修妬路)。若神見有力,何不用耳見色?如火能燒,處處皆燒。又如人或時無鎌,手亦能斷。又如舍有六向,人居其內所在能見。神亦如是,處處應見。

Ru-Yi Translation

Outsider: There must be a self, since it takes hold of colors and the rest.sūtra The five faculties cannot know the five sense-objects, not being knowing things; and so one knows that it is the self that knows. The self uses the eye and the other faculties to know colors and the other objects, as a man reaps the five grains with a sickle.

Insider: Why not see with the ear?sūtra If the self has the power of seeing, why does it not see color with the ear? Fire can burn, and it burns wherever it is. And a man with no sickle to hand can still cut with his hands. And a house has six openings, and a man living within can see from whichever of them he is at. The self should be just so, and should see from everywhere.

Reading note — Ru-Yi

Three counter-images, each attacking a different feature of the sickle.

Fire attacks the localization: a power that genuinely belongs to a thing goes wherever that thing goes. Fire does not burn only in braziers. If seeing is the self's power, it should not be confined to one aperture.

The sickle attacks itself, and this is the sharpest of the three. A reaper without his sickle does not stop being able to harvest; he tears at the stalks with his hands, more slowly and worse, but he does it. That is what having a power and using an instrument looks like: the instrument improves the exercise of a capacity that is independently there. Take the eye away from the Outsider's self and no degraded, clumsy seeing remains. Nothing remains.

The house is the most vivid and the most exacting. A man inside a house with several openings is not stuck at one of them; he looks out at whichever he happens to be standing by. If the self really occupies the body as a tenant occupies a house — which is the picture the Outsider has been working with all chapter — then the doorways should be interchangeable for it. That they are rigidly not is evidence that seeing belongs to the eye, and not to a tenant looking through it.

2. The Potter Needs Clay, and a Self With No Eye

The Outsider concedes that the apertures are not interchangeable and turns that into his answer: instruments are specialized. A potter is not incompetent because he cannot work without clay. The reply is one of the neatest reversals in the chapter.

Chinese Source

外曰:不然。所用定故,如陶師(修妬路)。神雖有見力,然眼等所伺不同,於塵各定故,不能用耳見色。如陶師雖能作瓶,離泥不能作。如是神雖有見力,非眼不能見。

內曰:若爾盲(修妬路)。若神用眼見,則神與眼異。神與眼異,則神無眼。神無眼云何見?汝陶師喻者,是亦不然。所以者何?離泥更無有瓶,泥即為瓶;而眼色異故。

Ru-Yi Translation

Outsider: Not so. Because what is used is fixed, as with a potter.sūtra Though the self has the power of seeing, the eye and the rest keep watch over different things and each is fixed upon its own object; and so it cannot see color with the ear. A potter can make a pot, but cannot make one apart from clay. Just so, though the self has the power of seeing, without the eye it cannot see.

Insider: If so, it is blind.sūtra If the self sees by means of the eye, then the self is other than the eye; and being other than the eye, the self has no eye; and having no eye, how does it see? Your potter simile does not hold either. Why? Because apart from clay there is no pot at all — the clay just is the pot — whereas the eye and the color are different things.

Reading note — Ru-Yi

若爾盲 — if so, it is blind — is three characters and it is the argument of the whole section. The Outsider needs the self to be separate from the eye, because a self identical with its organs would perish with them. But separate means: not having an eye. And a thing with no eye does not see. He has been trying to describe a seer who owns no eyes and yet sees through eyes that are not his, and the phrase names the result exactly.

The dismantling of the potter is a distinction worth keeping. There are two quite different relations that both get called "using a material." The potter and the clay are not two things standing side by side, because the clay becomes the pot — 泥即為瓶, the clay just is the pot. Nothing is left over. But the eye and the color are two persisting things, neither of which turns into the other. So the potter case cannot illustrate a relation between an eye and what it sees; it belongs to an entirely different family.

This is the third time in this chapter a simile has been refuted not by denying it but by locating the joint it was supposed to supply and showing the joint is missing. The pattern is by now the treatise's signature, and it is worth naming what it presupposes: that an analogy is an argument, with a structure, that can be checked.

3. The Mouth That Waters

Two pieces of evidence now, both drawn from ordinary experience, and both aimed at something the separate faculties cannot manage on their own: cases where information seems to cross from one sense to another.

Chinese Source

外曰:有神異情動故(修妬路)。若無神者,何故見他食果口中生涎,如是不應以眼知味,有眼者能知。復次一物眼身知故(修妬路)。如人眼先識瓶等,闇中雖不用眼,身觸亦知,是故知有神。

內曰:如盲,修妬路中已破。復次若眼見他食果而口生涎者,餘情何以不動?身亦如是。

Ru-Yi Translation

Outsider: There is a self, because one faculty stirs at another's business.sūtra If there were no self, why does a man's mouth water when he sees another eating fruit? Taste ought not to be known by the eye — it is the one who possesses the eye that knows. Furthermore, because one and the same thing is known by the eye and by the body.sūtra A man first recognizes a pot with his eye; and afterward in the dark, though he does not use the eye, he knows it by the body's touch. Therefore one knows there is a self.

Insider: This is refuted in the sūtra line "If so, it is blind." Furthermore, if the mouth waters because the eye sees another eating fruit, why do the remaining faculties not stir? And it is the same with the body.

Reading note — Ru-Yi

The watering mouth is a genuinely good observation and it is still the standard example in modern discussions of cross-modal perception. You see fruit; the seeing is visual; and yet saliva arrives, which belongs to taste. Something has carried the report across a boundary the faculties do not themselves cross. The pot in the dark makes the same point about identity rather than sensation: what the hand finds in the dark is recognized as the same pot the eye saw in the light, and neither organ can perform that identification, since neither has access to the other's data.

The reply is brief to the point of curtness, and its brevity is a claim in itself: this is the blind-self problem again in new clothes, already answered. Then one fresh objection, which is a demand that the explanation predict the right amount. If a single self behind the senses is what routes the visual report to the salivary response, that self is equally behind every other faculty — so the sight of fruit should set the whole system going at once, ears and nose and skin together. It does not. What actually happens is narrow and specific, one particular pathway between two particular senses, which is what a mechanism looks like and not what a universal proprietor looks like.

Readers should know that the treatise does not go on to say what does account for the watering mouth, and this is characteristic. Its target is the inference to a self, not the phenomenon; it is content to show that the phenomenon is too selective to be evidence for what it was offered as evidence for.

4. It Is Fire That Burns

Another instrument simile, and the reply to it is the most quietly startling sentence in the chapter — a denial that anybody ever burns anything.

Chinese Source

外曰:如人燒(修妬路)。譬如人雖能燒,離火不能燒。神亦如是,用眼能見,離眼不能見。

內曰:火燒(修妬路)。言人燒者,是則妄語。何以故?人無燒相,火自能燒。如風動木相揩生火,焚燒山澤,無有作者。是故火自能燒,非人燒也。

Ru-Yi Translation

Outsider: As with a man burning something.sūtra Though a man can burn a thing, he cannot burn it apart from fire. The self is just so: with the eye it can see, and apart from the eye it cannot.

Insider: It is fire that burns.sūtra To say that a man burns is false speech. Why? A man has no mark of burning; it is fire that burns of itself. When the wind stirs the trees so that they rub together and fire is born, and mountains and marshes are consumed, there is no maker of it at all. Therefore fire burns of itself, and it is not a man that burns.

Reading note — Ru-Yi

The wildfire is the whole argument and it is chosen with great care. Take the case the Outsider relies on — a man setting a field alight — and remove the man. Wind moves branches, branches rub, heat builds, fire starts, and a mountainside burns for a week. Everything that happens in the arson case happens here, and 無有作者: there is no doer.

So burning does not require a burner. It requires fuel, heat and air. The man in the arson case is not supplying the burning; he is supplying an occasion, and we credit him with the fire out of a habit of speech that the wildfire exposes as optional. Vasu is blunt about the status of that habit — 言人燒者,是則妄語, to say a man burns is false speech.

Then transpose. The Outsider wants the self to stand to seeing as the arsonist stands to burning. Very well: as the wildfire burns with nobody burning it, so seeing happens with nobody seeing. Eye, light and color meet, and there is sight. This is the same argument the Mūlamadhyamakakārikā makes at length about act and agent, and it reaches the same destination: what ripens is a process, not a proprietor.

5. The Mind, and a Regress

Now the Outsider produces the one candidate that is not an organ. Between the senses and the self stands 意, the mind — and a corpse with intact eyes proves it is needed. But introducing a knower of the senses raises the question of who knows it, and both sides know exactly where that leads.

Chinese Source

外曰:如意(修妬路)。如死人雖有眼,無意故神則不見,若有意神則見。如是神用眼見,離眼不見。

內曰:若有意能知、無意不能知者,但意行眼等門中便知,神復何用?

外曰:意不自知。若意意相知,此則無窮,我神一故。以神知意,非無窮也。

Ru-Yi Translation

Outsider: As with the mind.sūtra A dead man has eyes, but having no mind the self does not see; where there is mind, the self sees. Just so, the self sees by means of the eye and does not see apart from it.

Insider: If it knows where there is mind and cannot know where there is none, then the mind, going out through the gates of the eye and the rest, simply knows — and what further use is the self?

Outsider: The mind does not know itself. And if mind were known by mind there would be no end to it. But our self is one; and since the self knows the mind, there is no endless regress.

內曰:神亦神(修妬路)。若神知意,誰復知神?若神知神,是亦無窮。我法以現在意知過去意,意法無常故無咎。

Insider: Then the self needs a self.sūtra If the self knows the mind, who then knows the self? And if the self knows the self, that too is endless. In our doctrine the present mind knows the past mind; and since mind is impermanent, no fault follows.

外曰:云何除神(修妬路)?若除神,云何但意知諸塵?內曰:如火熱相(修妬路)。譬如火熱,無有作者,火性自熱,無有不熱之火。如是意是知相,雖復離神,性知故能知。神知異故,神不應知。

Outsider: How can the self be dispensed with?sūtra If the self is dispensed with, how does the mind alone know the objects?

Insider: As with the heat that is fire's mark.sūtra Fire is hot, and there is no maker of its heat; fire's nature is of itself hot, and there is no fire that is not hot. Just so, the mind has knowing for its mark: even apart from a self, since its nature is knowing, it is able to know. And since the self and knowing are different, the self ought not to know at all.

Reading note — Ru-Yi

This exchange is the philosophical center of the chapter, and both parties are arguing well.

The Outsider's position is a real one and it is still held: a mind cannot be its own object, on pain of regress, so awareness of one's own mental states requires a further, unitary knower — and being unitary, it stops the regress rather than continuing it. That is why he says 我神一故, our self is one. The regress is halted by fiat at a term that does not need a knower.

神亦神 — then the self needs a self — refuses the fiat. If knowing something requires a knower standing behind it, that requirement does not politely exempt the last item in the series; and if the self can know itself, then the mind could have known itself and the whole apparatus was unnecessary. Either the principle holds and the regress continues, or it fails and the self was never needed.

Then the Buddhist alternative, in a single line that is the constructive core of the entire chapter: 以現在意知過去意,意法無常故無咎 — the present mind knows the past mind, and because mind is impermanent no fault follows. This is the crucial architectural point. The regress arises only if the knower and the known must be simultaneous, which forces the knower outside the series. Let them be successive and the problem dissolves: each moment of mind takes the previous moment as its object, and there is no need for anything standing outside time to hold the sequence together. What the Outsider treated as a fatal weakness — impermanence — is exactly what makes the account work.

The fire's heat then answers the last question. "Without a self, how does the mind know?" carries a hidden assumption: that knowing is an activity requiring an agent to perform it. Fire is hot without anything heating it — its heat is not something done to it, and there is no such thing as a fire waiting to be made hot. So with mind: knowing is not an operation the mind performs on the instruction of an owner. It is what mind is. The image is precisely chosen, because heat was the very example used back in Part 4 to show that a mark cannot be separated from what bears it. The same fire that began the chapter's argument now ends it.

6. The Newborn Who Already Knows How to Grieve

The Outsider changes register from analysis to observation, and the observation is a strong one. A baby is not taught to be pleased or distressed; it arrives knowing how. Something must have carried that across the gap between one life and the next.

Chinese Source

外曰:應有神宿,習念相續故,生時憂喜行(修妬路)。如小兒生便知行憂喜等事,無有教者,以先世宿習憶念相續故,今世還為種種業。是故知有神亦常相。

Ru-Yi Translation

Outsider: There must be a self carried over, for the memory of former habit continues, and at birth grief and joy are already at work.sūtra A newborn child already knows how to grieve and to rejoice and so on, and there is nobody who taught it. This is because the memory of habits laid down in a former life continues unbroken, so that in this life it performs the various kinds of act again. Therefore one knows there is a self, and that it has the mark of permanence.

內曰:遍云何念(修妬路)?神常遍諸塵,無不念時,念從何生?復次若念一切處生,念亦應遍一切處,如是一切處應一時念。若念分分處生,神則有分,有分故無常。復次若神無知、若知非神,此事先已破。

Insider: Being pervasive, how does it remember?sūtra The self always pervades all objects and there is no time when it is not remembering — so where is a memory to arise from? Furthermore, if memory arises everywhere, then memory too must pervade all places, and everything must be remembered at one and the same time. And if memory arises in this part and that, then the self has parts, and having parts it is impermanent. Furthermore, that either the self does not know, or that what knows is not the self, has been refuted above.

外曰:合故念生(修妬路)。若神意合,以勢發故念生。何以故?神意雖合,勢不發者則念不生。

內曰:雖先已破,今當重說。神若知相,不應生念。若非知相,亦不應生念。復次若念知(修妬路)。若念生是時知,若念不生是時不知,應念即是知,神復何用?

Outsider: Memory arises from conjunction.sūtra When the self and the mind are conjoined, memory arises because an impulse is set off. Why? Because though self and mind be conjoined, if the impulse is not set off, no memory arises.

Insider: Though this has been refuted already, let it be said again. If the self has knowing for its mark, no memory should arise in it; and if it has not knowing for its mark, no memory should arise either. Furthermore, if memory is knowing.sūtra When memory arises, at that time there is knowing; when memory does not arise, at that time there is no knowing. So memory just is knowing — and what further use is the self?

Reading note — Ru-Yi

Notice first what is not disputed. Rebirth is common ground; so is the continuity of habit across lives. The Insider never suggests the newborn's grief needs no explanation. The dispute is entirely about whether the explanation requires a permanent carrier, and it is fought on the carrier's own specifications.

Those specifications are what make remembering impossible. Memory is an event — it happens now and was not happening a moment ago. But this self is pervasive and always aware of everything; on its own terms 無不念時, there is no time when it is not remembering. A thing already remembering everything cannot suddenly remember something, because nothing has changed. Recollection requires a transition, and a permanent omnipresent knower has no transitions available to it.

The Outsider's repair is to relocate the event: the self is constant, but memory fires when self and mind conjoin and an impulse is triggered. This concedes a great deal — the actual work has moved to the conjunction and the impulse — and it walks into the question that has been closing on him all chapter. If memory is present exactly when knowing is present and absent exactly when knowing is absent, then memory is knowing; and the self, which is constant through both, correlates with nothing. 神復何用, what further use is the self, is asked here for the third time on this page, and by now it has the character of a refrain rather than a question.

7. The Left Eye Sees, the Right Eye Recognizes

The last of the Outsider's jobs for a self, and a clever one: the unity of a single perceiver across two organs. Cover one eye, look at something, then cover the other — the second eye does not encounter a stranger. Something is uniting them.

Chinese Source

外曰:應有神。左見右識故(修妬路)。如人先左眼見,後右眼識,不應彼見此識。以內有神故,左見右識。

Ru-Yi Translation

Outsider: There must be a self, because the left eye sees and the right eye recognizes.sūtra A man first sees with his left eye and afterward recognizes with his right; and it should not be that one sees and the other recognizes. It is because there is a self within that what the left eye saw, the right eye recognizes.

內曰:共答二眼(修妬路)。分知不名知。復次若爾無知,復次遍云何念?復次若念知,復次何不用耳見?復次若爾盲,復次如左眼見不應右眼識,神亦不應此分見彼分識,是故不應以左眼見右眼識故便有神。

Insider: One answer covers both eyes.sūtra Knowing in part is not called knowing. Furthermore: "if so, there is no self." Furthermore: "being pervasive, how does it remember?" Furthermore: "if memory is knowing." Furthermore: "why not see with the ear?" Furthermore: "if so, it is blind." And furthermore — just as it should not be that the left eye sees and the right eye recognizes, so neither should the self see in this part and recognize in that. Therefore one should not posit a self on the ground that the left eye sees and the right eye recognizes.

Reading note — Ru-Yi

This passage looks, at first glance, like a copyist's accident — a bare list of six sūtra lines strung together with "furthermore." It is not. It is a deliberate technique, and the root line announces it: 共答二眼, one answer covers both eyes. The objection is a recombination of moves already refuted, so the refutations are simply cited back by their tags, in the manner of a debater saying: answered, answered, answered.

A reader can check the fit. "Knowing in part is not knowing" and "if so, there is no self" hit the assumption that a self can do one thing here and another there. "Being pervasive, how does it remember?" and "if memory is knowing" hit the recognition half, which is a memory claim. "Why not see with the ear?" and "if so, it is blind" hit the seeing half. Six previously established results, each landing on a different joint of the new objection.

Then the fresh stroke, and it is the good one. The Outsider's own premise was that it is impossible for one thing to see and a different thing to recognize — that is why he needs a self. But his self is extended and does its work part by part: it is present at the left eye and present at the right, and those are two places. So his solution has the identical structure as the problem. If seeing in one location and recognizing in another needs to be bridged, then his self, spread across two locations, needs the same bridge. The unifier has to be unified.

8. The Partly Burned Garment

The chapter's last exchange returns to the objection that a self which knows in one small region cannot be called a knower. The Outsider tries twice to license the usage from ordinary speech — we credit the whole body with what the hand does, we call a garment burned when a corner of it is — and the reply, in five characters, is the moral of the entire chapter.

Chinese Source

外曰:念屬神故神知(修妬路)。念名神法,是念神中生,是故神用念知。

內曰:不然。分知不名知(修妬路)。若神一分處知生,神則分知。若神分知,神不名知。

Ru-Yi Translation

Outsider: Memory belongs to the self, and so the self knows.sūtra Memory is a property of the self, and this memory arises within the self; and so the self knows by means of memory.

Insider: Not so. Knowing in part is not called knowing.sūtra If knowing arises in one part of the self, then the self knows only in part; and if the self knows only in part, the self is not called a knower.

外曰:神知非分知。何以故?神雖分知,神名知,如身業(修妬路)。譬如身分,手有所作名為身作。如是神雖分知,神名知。

內曰:若爾無知(修妬路)。汝法神遍意少,神意合故神知生,是知與意等少。若以少知神名知者,汝何不言以多不知故神名不知?又汝身業喻者,此事不然。何以故?分有分一異不可得故。

Outsider: The self's knowing is not a partial knowing. Why? Because though the self knows in a part, the self is called a knower — as with an act of the body.sūtra When a part of the body, the hand, does something, it is called an act of the body. Just so, though the self knows in a part, the self is called a knower.

Insider: If so, it does not know.sūtra In your doctrine the self is pervasive and the mind is small; and since knowing arises from the conjunction of self and mind, that knowing is as small as the mind. If you call the self a knower on account of a little knowing, why do you not say that on account of a great deal of not-knowing the self is called a non-knower? And your simile of the body's act does not hold either. Why? Because the part and the whole that has the part are to be found neither as one nor as different.

外曰:如衣分燒(修妬路)。譬如衣一分燒,名為燒衣。如是神雖一分知,名為神知。

內曰:燒亦如是(修妬路)。若衣一分燒,不名為燒,應名分燒。汝以一分燒故衣名燒者,今多不燒應名不燒。何以故?是衣多不燒,實有用故。是以莫著語言。

Outsider: As when part of a garment is burned.sūtra When one part of a garment is burned, it is called a burned garment. Just so, though the self knows in one part, it is called the self's knowing.

Insider: It is the same with the burning.sūtra If one part of a garment is burned, it should not be called burned; it should be called partly burned. You call the garment burned because one part of it is burned — then, since the greater part is not burned, it should be called unburned. Why? Because most of the garment is unburned, and is genuinely still usable. So do not cling to language.

Reading note — Ru-Yi

The Outsider is now arguing entirely from usage, and the two examples are both perfectly ordinary. We do say the body acted when only the hand moved. We do say a coat is burned when a sleeve is scorched. If speech works this way generally, a self that knows in one small region can be called a knower.

The reply about proportion has real bite. In this doctrine the self is boundless and the mind is a point; so the knowing, which arises where the two meet, is a point too. Call the whole boundless thing a knower because of that point, and the labeling is decided by an infinitesimal fraction and ignores the rest. Why not weigh it the other way? Why do you not say that on account of a great deal of not-knowing, the self is called a non-knower? The Outsider's rule for extending a predicate from part to whole has no principle in it; it just happens to give the answer he wants.

The garment then shows what such usage costs when it is taken as metaphysics. The observation is deliberately homely: the coat still works — 是衣多不燒,實有用故, most of it is unburned and you can still wear it. So "burned garment" is an entirely serviceable thing to say and an entirely useless thing to reason from. It tells you a corner is gone. It does not tell you the garment has the property of being burned.

And so the chapter ends: 莫著語言 — do not cling to language. It is the right ending, because the whole of Chapter Two has been an argument conducted through similes, and the Outsider's case has rested throughout on the fact that we talk as though there were a self. We say a man burns the field, that the body acted, that the coat is burned, that I saw and I remember. None of these are lies. They are how the language works. The error is to look at the grammar of a sentence and conclude that a thing must exist to satisfy it. This is why the treatise refuted a dozen similes rather than stating a doctrine, and it is where Part 7 begins — because the next chapter takes the plainest sentence anyone can utter, there is one pot, and asks what in the world could make it true.

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Part Six Complete

This closes Part Six, and with it the refutation of the self. The reaper's sickle, which a reaper can do without and a self cannot; the potter's clay, which becomes the pot as an eye never becomes a color; the mouth that waters at the sight of fruit, and the other four senses that stay unmoved; the wildfire with no arsonist; the mind that would need a knower, answered by a present moment that knows the moment before it; the newborn's inherited grief, which a self already remembering everything could never come to remember; the two eyes that need the same bridge the self was brought in to provide; and a coat you can still wear.

Chapter Three turns from the self to the world, and to a sentence so plain that it looks unassailable: there is one pot. Three words, three things — being, oneness, and the pot — and the chapter asks how they are related. It also contains the treatise's one confessed hole, where four sheets of the argument were judged untranslatable and left out.